makes sence to me

[Josh Langel]

Nah, let's just promote and make it okay to live here illegally. Hell, let's just take away the whole idea of taxes! Better yet, why don't the country raise the taxes on its citizens so that the illegal immigrants can have shelter and food... that way when they crash into a citizen they can just be "deported" and maybe even come back...



Oh, wait... we do that already...

 

[Fred]

Hold on there Mud Flap, don't you know it's not nice anymore to tell it like it REALLY is??? Why, I bet you offended someone, and we just aren't supposed to do that.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Whatever you do, just don't get drunk in a bar in Texas. Public intoxication is against the law.



We need to focus on the important stuff like those that drunks. The things like illegal aliens, though it might be illegal, they will work for less then minimum wage and don't pay tax's. It is good for the economy.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I would rather have a small business owner hire an illegal alien for his construction or landscaping job, than have that same small business owner drink to the point of falling-down drunkenness in a bar, then drive home.



But hey, that's just me!

 

[Tom Schindler]

I would rather have a small business owner hire an illegal alien for his construction or landscaping job, than have that same small business owner drink to the point of falling-down drunkenness in a bar, then drive home.

Arent both the items listed above breaking the law? How is one better then the other?



What if the owner of the construction or landscaping company took a cab to and from a bar home every day?





Tom

 

[Fred]

On a different note:



An illegal alien construction worker gets drunk and then attempts to drive home. On the way home he causes an accident, killing the occupant in the other car.



A small business owner gets drunk and then attempts to drive home. On the way home he causes an accident, killing the occupant in the other car.



Will they both be equally punished for their crime? Really, I'm just wondering.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Fred,



Good point.



Odds are, no. The illegal alien doesn't have anything, so you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. Also, odds are the illegal immagrant won't have car insurance. Since the worst that could happen is the illegal would be sent back to where ever he came from.



Then he could sneak back in with a "clean slate" to do it all over again.



My tax money, not something he paid into, pays for all of it. So, my tax's get raised to cover the extra costs. My insurance rates go up because of an uninsured motorist.



It is a win-win for them. We are the only loosers.





Tom

 

[Fred]

That's kinda what I suspected, but I just wasn't sure.

 

[Bill V]

Caymen, you're right about the insurance--the illegal probably wouldn't have it, so much would come out of the victim's uninsured motorist coverage. Causing the rates to go up for everyone.



However, regarding the actual question about punishment for the crime--vehicular homicide or vehicular manslaughter charges would occur for either driver, regardless of their citizenship status.

 

[Martin Luckett]

Ditto HO...........

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yes, Caymen, both are breaking the law, but I (and others) see a benefit in the hiring of the illegal alien...there is no benefit only downside in people drinking in public to a state of drunkenness.



TJR

 

[Fred]

What is the benefit in allowing illegals to stay (isn't that illegal?), let alone hiring them? Surely there's someone who's legal that would take (whatever) job. No?

 

[Tom Schindler]

Fred gets it.



I see no benefit for an immigrant to live here illegally. The only ones that benefit from hiring those that are here and breaking the law is someone getting rich breaking the law. There is a minimum wage for a reason. If someone living here that is illegal gets hurt, who pays the hospital bills? We do. Who pays for the roads they use? We do. I don't want to support anyone outside my household. Those are the ones I am responsible for.



Sorry, I just can't agree with someone being rewarded for breaking the law. No matter what the reason. You want to live here, become a citizen. Can get citicenship...not my problem.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Fred says:

What is the benefit in allowing illegals to stay (isn't that illegal?), let alone hiring them? Surely there's someone who's legal that would take (whatever) job. No?

Caymen says:

I see no benefit for an immigrant to live here illegally. The only ones that benefit from hiring those that are here and breaking the law is someone getting rich breaking the law.

The point I was trying to make is that BOTH are illegal, and if I had to pick one, I would rather see illegals than drunks in public.



Why, because I have a benefit to illegals. So do you. That benefit is LOWER COSTS for goods and services.



You may disagree with that, and that is okay. I don't expect Caymen to agree. The way I see it is that there are very few LEGAL, documented, workers that will take the jobs that the illegals are doing, at the pay that the illegals are doing that work for.



Yes, illegals work under the table, yes the don't pay taxes, yes they and their families can be a burden on schools and healthcare systems. However, if they all mysteriously vanished tomorrow, I don't see healthcare costs going down, nor real estate taxes going down (#1 source for public school fundings), but I am SURE that the costs of many goods and services will go up.



We have allowed this lawlessnes because, frankly, it benefits most of us.



I can understand many won't agree with that, but I feel it is the reality of the situation.



TJR

 

[Fred]

I'd rather pay more for the goods and services if that's what it takes to stop the free riding madness. Yeah, really, I would.



As long as the intention is only to make a better life for themselves, by honestly working, I don't have anything against anyone coming to this country legally, my parents did it. They moved from Canada to Florida in the 60's, before I was born. But before they were allowed to move here, they (or Dad) had to provide proof that he had arranged for employment and they HAD TO sign a document saying that they'd never apply for/ accept public assistance. Also, each year, until they became American citizens, they had to 'check in' with immigration. I think it should be that way now. No one 'deserves' a free ride.

 

[Mark Grumpy]

nor real estate taxes going down (#1 source for public school fundings),

Not immediately anyway. But if you cut the student population in half (or more) then it eventually would go down.



But I agree with you on the economics of hiring the illegals. And who would harvest those chicken livers Fred?? There are many, many jobs that some Americans just won't do - some are just too damned lazy - regardless of the pay rate. Maybe we could replace the "illegal" work force with the "welfare" workforce. Cost of goods would stay about the same, a slight increase maybe, but government costs would go down from not supporting millions of "Whoa, time to have another kid so I ain't gotta work" good fer nuthin's. But then we'd have to lower minimum wage and we'd all get screwed. sigh!!! I give up. Is there a solution?? Really, anyone!



grump

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Remember, the schools are mostly filled with "legal residents"...it is their parents that are the illegals. We could end up with a ton of orphaned kids if their parents got kicked out.

 

[Mark Grumpy]

For most of the countries illegals, that would be very true. But along the borders (I don't live there anymore) they, the kids, come over daily for school. In TX, they just need a US address of a family member, legal or otherwise, to attend school. My kiddos school was practically empty on 5th May one year when the bridge was at "minimum manning".



grump

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yeah, grumpy, gotta love those border states.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Why, because I have a benefit to illegals. So do you. That benefit is LOWER COSTS for goods and services.

Then the cost of other things go up like Tax's to help pay fr those that work here, illegally, and use the facilities, but don't pay for it.



I prefer someone getting hammered in a bar and being responsible and not driving then someone living here for less then minimum wage and not paying tax's.



Remember, TJR, you don't like to assume anything, so don't assume that those drinking in a bar are going to drive.





Tom