Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
This is not good news. Looks like prices will be over $2.00 for a long time. Maybe I should have kept my old car that got 42 mpg. :unsure:
More Pain at The Pump
- Thread starter Nelson Atwell
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Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
I sure have cut back drastically on how much pleasure driving I do. From the increased demand, guess not that many folks have cut back like me.
Fudged Undies
Well-Known Member
all of this is very convenient. with oil companies reporting record profits, this is all a load of crap. I'll pay, the alternatives just don't work, but it's still a load.
Heather Kudela
Active Member
I have definately cut back on my driving, it's awful too, my family lives about 45 min away and I really do limit how much I go and see them because I know that the trip there and back is almost a half a tank 
I wish there was a way to boycott, to say that we can't afford to do this but how is it possible? We're stuck...:angry:damn the man!
I wish there was a way to boycott, to say that we can't afford to do this but how is it possible? We're stuck...:angry:damn the man!David Crockett
Active Member
Everyone needs to buy gas from AMERICAN oil companies. There aren't many of them left, but being more selective of where and when you buy your gas can help out. A search on google or yahoo will give you a list of American oil companies. I think a few of them are Shell, Unico, and Amico. BP is British/Australian, but still better than buying from Arab oil companies like Exxon.
Also, just so everyone knows, as long as America is dependent on foreign oil, the Arabs are going to continue to raise prices and affect our foreign policy. The literally have us "over a barrel". America uses more petrolium than any other country in the world, yet we only produce enough of our own to sustain our current way of life for three or four years. We currently account for 1/3 of all the oil use in the world. I'm not an energy expert, but I do know that our excesive life-style and favoritism to large gas-guzzlers like Expeditions, Escalades, and F-350s doesn't help very much. We can't support our fossil fuel needs without foreign suppliments. Pres. Bush has takena step to try to tap into those huge Alaskan oil fields, but came under heavy scrutiny from the EPA and other environmental agencies because they'd rather save a few acres of perma-frost than help the American economy. I want to save out natural resources also, but there must be an effective compromise.
Maybe a few of you older people will remember the huge fuel crisis we went through in the early 70's? Everyone who was driving their huge Thunderbirds, Monte Carlos, Chargers, and Broncos got tired of following tanker trucks to the fuel station and traded their rides in for Gremlins, Pacers, and Yugos......The same sort of crisis is in effect now. How much longer will it be before the American public wakes up and starts getting smart about energy conservation? I know STs fall into the "less economic" category, being a SUV, but sometimes the truth hurts. After all, how many people do you know that actually need that much cargo space or take their $30,000 4x4 off-road? I know a few of us here do, sure, but about 95% do not. It's just an expensive status symbol, but since EVERYONE has one now, it isn't even much of a status symbol. I'm not knocking the ST, by the way, just using it to make an example. Of all the vehicles out there, the ST is probably one of the more economical and fuel efficient SUVs on the market.
All I'm saying is that everyone needs to do their part. Support leaders who are in favor of developing alternative fuel sources, like liquid hydogen or hybrid technology. Buy American gas. Take a 5 minute walk or bike-ride down to the corner-market, instead of hopping in the ST.
Everyone needs to help out. Otherwise, in 20 years, our kids are going to be leafing through sales brouchers for the newest air-conditioned and GPS equipped horse buggies, and "Equestrian Sport Tuner" is going to be the big seller on the magazine racks......
Also, just so everyone knows, as long as America is dependent on foreign oil, the Arabs are going to continue to raise prices and affect our foreign policy. The literally have us "over a barrel". America uses more petrolium than any other country in the world, yet we only produce enough of our own to sustain our current way of life for three or four years. We currently account for 1/3 of all the oil use in the world. I'm not an energy expert, but I do know that our excesive life-style and favoritism to large gas-guzzlers like Expeditions, Escalades, and F-350s doesn't help very much. We can't support our fossil fuel needs without foreign suppliments. Pres. Bush has takena step to try to tap into those huge Alaskan oil fields, but came under heavy scrutiny from the EPA and other environmental agencies because they'd rather save a few acres of perma-frost than help the American economy. I want to save out natural resources also, but there must be an effective compromise.
Maybe a few of you older people will remember the huge fuel crisis we went through in the early 70's? Everyone who was driving their huge Thunderbirds, Monte Carlos, Chargers, and Broncos got tired of following tanker trucks to the fuel station and traded their rides in for Gremlins, Pacers, and Yugos......The same sort of crisis is in effect now. How much longer will it be before the American public wakes up and starts getting smart about energy conservation? I know STs fall into the "less economic" category, being a SUV, but sometimes the truth hurts. After all, how many people do you know that actually need that much cargo space or take their $30,000 4x4 off-road? I know a few of us here do, sure, but about 95% do not. It's just an expensive status symbol, but since EVERYONE has one now, it isn't even much of a status symbol. I'm not knocking the ST, by the way, just using it to make an example. Of all the vehicles out there, the ST is probably one of the more economical and fuel efficient SUVs on the market.
All I'm saying is that everyone needs to do their part. Support leaders who are in favor of developing alternative fuel sources, like liquid hydogen or hybrid technology. Buy American gas. Take a 5 minute walk or bike-ride down to the corner-market, instead of hopping in the ST.
Everyone needs to help out. Otherwise, in 20 years, our kids are going to be leafing through sales brouchers for the newest air-conditioned and GPS equipped horse buggies, and "Equestrian Sport Tuner" is going to be the big seller on the magazine racks......
Dave Scharff
Member
Just want to clarify...It is hard to support American oil companies, because many of the American companies have been bought out or merged with foriegn companies...You mentioned Shell...They just last month merged with Royal Dutch, which is a British company. To form Royal Dutch Shell. Amico and BP also merged sometime ago, thus creating BP Amico Corp. I'm not sure about Unico (I've personally never heard of them).
As a side note...I believe that Shell bought out Texico a few years ago...Mobil was bought by Lukoil also a foriegn company...etc.
Come to think of it I can't think of any strictly US Oil Companies...I know that I am forgetting a few...Can anyone else think of any?
SKI
As a side note...I believe that Shell bought out Texico a few years ago...Mobil was bought by Lukoil also a foriegn company...etc.
Come to think of it I can't think of any strictly US Oil Companies...I know that I am forgetting a few...Can anyone else think of any?
SKI
Kevin DeRieux
Member
If you want to buy American, save the environment and lower gas prices, you can always run E-85 if your ST can takes alternative fuels. The only problem is your gas mileage is reduced to about 65-70% of normal. I’ve tried it and only get about 220 miles out of a tank.
It’s cleaner burning and produced in America. It’s lower priced gas but does not save you money because of the reduction in gas mileage. However, it reduces the dependency on fossil fuels. Lower demand, lower prices.
I’ve read a lot of mixed articles on the production, emission and what we are really saving. Nothing conclusive.
I have an ’04 and it takes the fuel. There is only one place in San Diego that has it.
If you want to know more, you can check out the website.
http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php
It’s cleaner burning and produced in America. It’s lower priced gas but does not save you money because of the reduction in gas mileage. However, it reduces the dependency on fossil fuels. Lower demand, lower prices.
I’ve read a lot of mixed articles on the production, emission and what we are really saving. Nothing conclusive.
I have an ’04 and it takes the fuel. There is only one place in San Diego that has it.
If you want to know more, you can check out the website.
http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php
Dave S
Member
Good posts. Here in Minneapolis Gas is now $2.45/Gal and higher today. (We are one of the lowest gas tax states in the nation) (Note I didn't say one of the lowest taxed!) Our new state motto is proposed to be "Land of 10,000 taxes
I have a 2005 ST and have experimented running E85. It's only about .20 cheaper vs. 87 regular and no - you don't get very good mileage out of it. My last tank of 3/4 E85 got me about 15.5 mpg with mostly freeway miles. I guess that's about 25-30% less than straight petro.
Even in Minnesota, which is the E85 capital of the US - it is hard to find. Many of the stations try to make additional profit on it by raising the price. The state subsidizes the price and taxes it less and then the gas stations jack up the price to make higher profits. I have found big variances in the price in different cities.
I agree that if enough cars could run on it and the production/distribution system improved due to the increased demand - we might be on to something. I personally would love get off the dependance of foreign oil. Even if 50% of the vehicles used 50% E85 I think the impact could be huge. The other factor we aren't talking about is the demand for petro in China/India and other developing Nations. This is also causing the price to go up. More demand higher prices.
One thing that really irks me is everytime some news guy states that King so and so has just died is like giving all the gas stations a license to raise their prices the next day. You would think it would take a few days for this to take effect, but no, the gas distributors take advantage of the headlines right away and reap the profits. If you doubt that gas isn't profitable - just take a look at the Fortune or Forbes most profitable company lists worldwide. The majority are oil companies.
What's a guy to do? I love my Trac - but my second car is going to get at least 30mpg.
I have a 2005 ST and have experimented running E85. It's only about .20 cheaper vs. 87 regular and no - you don't get very good mileage out of it. My last tank of 3/4 E85 got me about 15.5 mpg with mostly freeway miles. I guess that's about 25-30% less than straight petro.
Even in Minnesota, which is the E85 capital of the US - it is hard to find. Many of the stations try to make additional profit on it by raising the price. The state subsidizes the price and taxes it less and then the gas stations jack up the price to make higher profits. I have found big variances in the price in different cities.
I agree that if enough cars could run on it and the production/distribution system improved due to the increased demand - we might be on to something. I personally would love get off the dependance of foreign oil. Even if 50% of the vehicles used 50% E85 I think the impact could be huge. The other factor we aren't talking about is the demand for petro in China/India and other developing Nations. This is also causing the price to go up. More demand higher prices.
One thing that really irks me is everytime some news guy states that King so and so has just died is like giving all the gas stations a license to raise their prices the next day. You would think it would take a few days for this to take effect, but no, the gas distributors take advantage of the headlines right away and reap the profits. If you doubt that gas isn't profitable - just take a look at the Fortune or Forbes most profitable company lists worldwide. The majority are oil companies.
What's a guy to do? I love my Trac - but my second car is going to get at least 30mpg.
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On tonight's news the reported that a barrel of oil had just gone over $65, and one analyst predicted that oil will be over $75 per barrel within one year which would yield gas pump prices of $3.50 per gallon!
I saw another stock market analyst that said something rather profound! He said the only way to get even with the oil companies and their obsene profits is to simply buy stocks in those oil companies that are making so much money. While that may sound like gettin in bed with the devil, it's the only legal way to get some of your gas money back, and perhaps make a few dollars in the process.
...Rich
I saw another stock market analyst that said something rather profound! He said the only way to get even with the oil companies and their obsene profits is to simply buy stocks in those oil companies that are making so much money. While that may sound like gettin in bed with the devil, it's the only legal way to get some of your gas money back, and perhaps make a few dollars in the process.
...Rich
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
DeadlyDavy: Like car companies, there is not a true American Oil company. And they all get their oil from the Middle East and other OPEC countries, so you're not even using American oil.
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
For the first time in my life, I just paid over $50 to fill my tank. :angry:
If gas stays over $2, this is the last 4x4 I have for a DD unless maybe an Escape Hybrid or Jeep diesel.
If gas stays over $2, this is the last 4x4 I have for a DD unless maybe an Escape Hybrid or Jeep diesel.
walter clark
Active Member
A good article on this subject. It is skewed some toward the anti view but we must consider both sides of the coin before we spend it.
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Good Grief! Our prices are now above $2.45/gal. This is an increase of 25 cents in a week! I hate to think what my next fill-up will cost.
Richard Turnbull
Member
I costs me $90 to fill my ST now (I am in Canada). So you people in the States have still got cheaper gas than us. I am driving to Wisconsin in September and I will be going through the States because of the cheaper gas.
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but that $90 is in Canadian dollars... isn't that about $45 US?
Cajun
Active Member
This is crazy .....day b-4 yeasterday ....2.33 .....yesterday 2.39 .......today 2.41.....same station !!
Richard Turnbull
Member
No, with the current exchange rate, $90 Canadian is $75 US.
So, up here I am paying $75 US to fill my tank.
So, up here I am paying $75 US to fill my tank.
Olaf Luethje
Member
In Canada:
101.9 per litre.
3.7854 litres per US gallon.
$4.20 CDN per US gallon.
$3.05 US per gallon!!!:angry::angry:
101.9 per litre.
3.7854 litres per US gallon.
$4.20 CDN per US gallon.
$3.05 US per gallon!!!:angry::angry:
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
All of us are getting cheap gas compared to the Europeans. When I lived in Portugal, in 2000, they were already paying $4.00 a gallon. Price was even higher in Spain (around $5/gal there). I can't imagine what they are paying now with higher crude prices. I bet it is above $6.00 now. :blink:
Of course we could all form a co-op, buy a tanker and ship gas from Venuzuela, since they are paying about 25 cents/gal there.
There was an article on biodiesel in our local paper today. I wrote to the author and asked him to do an expose on why our E-85 dealer in OKC is price gouging, when he is receiving US and State tax breaks to bring us an alternative. I sent a note to the Clean Cities organization as well, since they are the ones promoting E-85 in Oklahoma. :huh:
In light of the high prices, there are some folks doing their own mods. There are some getting 250 mpg in their modded vehicles. See the link below:
Of course we could all form a co-op, buy a tanker and ship gas from Venuzuela, since they are paying about 25 cents/gal there.
There was an article on biodiesel in our local paper today. I wrote to the author and asked him to do an expose on why our E-85 dealer in OKC is price gouging, when he is receiving US and State tax breaks to bring us an alternative. I sent a note to the Clean Cities organization as well, since they are the ones promoting E-85 in Oklahoma. :huh:
In light of the high prices, there are some folks doing their own mods. There are some getting 250 mpg in their modded vehicles. See the link below:
Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
You cannot buy stritcly American oil made gas. ALL gas/oil, weither Arab, Russian, south American or US produced goes into the distribution system, where it is then pulled out, refined and dropped back into the system. Williams runs a good portion of this system (which, BTW is bigger in the fuel industry than Halliburton). When a station (be it ARCO, Exxon, Shell, Sam's Club, Texaco, Chevron, etc) require fuel, they contract a truck to deliver the luquid gold as they need. Once the fuel is dumped into the truck, that is when the additives are added (techron, etc).
Where I live, nearly all the gas come from the "bottlers" in either Little Rock or Memphis. It's all the same.
The only two companies that I am unsure if they participate in this system are Sinoco and Sinclair. There may be others but all the big guys use it. It's a very dependable system that is relatively efficient and has contributed to keeping prices lower (up till this point).
One of the only ways to get lower gas prices is to increase refining capacity. Plain and simple. It's simple economics right now, demand is out pacing supply. When airports begin running out of jet fuel, gas stations have to shut down at times, it's not about prices it's having sufficient supply to sell. If we can suck dry gas stations at $2.50/gallon, stations go to $3.00... it will keep on this way until supply and demand come back into check.
Increase the supply, lower the price. We havn't had a significant increase in supply since 1978 (or there abouts). I know of at least two refineries that have shut down since 1988....
Where I live, nearly all the gas come from the "bottlers" in either Little Rock or Memphis. It's all the same.
The only two companies that I am unsure if they participate in this system are Sinoco and Sinclair. There may be others but all the big guys use it. It's a very dependable system that is relatively efficient and has contributed to keeping prices lower (up till this point).
One of the only ways to get lower gas prices is to increase refining capacity. Plain and simple. It's simple economics right now, demand is out pacing supply. When airports begin running out of jet fuel, gas stations have to shut down at times, it's not about prices it's having sufficient supply to sell. If we can suck dry gas stations at $2.50/gallon, stations go to $3.00... it will keep on this way until supply and demand come back into check.
Increase the supply, lower the price. We havn't had a significant increase in supply since 1978 (or there abouts). I know of at least two refineries that have shut down since 1988....
