New bill may force carriers to tell the 4G truth.

[Richard L]

4G is barely in its infancy and it has already been through so much. First it was fake, and then some solid lobbying on carriers parts convinced the International Telecommunication Union to sing a new tune that would allow telcos to call LTE, WiMAX and even certain 3G technologies 4G without blatantly lying. Though 4Gs definition is now anything but clear, carrier marketing soon could be new legislation currently in hands of the U.S. House of Representatives could potentially require U.S. wireless service providers to define guaranteed minimum data speeds that customers can expect of their networks. Since two tin cans and a piece of string can basically be called a 4G network according to the ITUs loose guidelines, this bill dubbed the Next Generation Wireless Disclosure Act would be a big step toward

I have heard that both Verizon and AT&T have been lying about their new 4G networks, which are really the same old 3G with a few added bells and whistles. It sounds like they got the definition of 4G changed to meet their existing 3G networks. I hope they are forced to pay back big $$$ for people who thought they were getting the true 4G standard, not a redefined 3G network claimed to be 4G.



...Rich

 

[EddieS'04]

Rich,

I have the verizon 4G UML290 for my lap top. At home around Houston area. It connects to 4G, is almost as fast as my comcast broad band.

I actually bought it for when Im out of town. Most for up at Lake Livingston, at moms.

Nonthing but sat up there. Sat internet would have cost me another sat and wiring. Plus the monthly cost was more.

The problem I have up ther is I only get 3G. When I change web pages I get droped and have to manually reconnect the verizon access manager. The data is streamed thru its own phone number. When I use my cell phone up there, I never get droped. Verizon has a tower in the area. They said 4G is not offered there so that is why I get 3G.

They still havent been able to fix why I get droped though.

I originaly had 3G It got droped in the country also, but not in Houston.

 

[Richard L]

Eddie,

Most of the 3G networks offered by Verizon and AT&T are only souped up versions of their 3G offering. What the article points out is that the Cellular providers bastardized the original 4G standards and then convinced the ITU to change their wording of their standard so they could claim they were 4G compatible when in fact, many places are still running on the old 3G networks, or just souped up 3G networks and not true 4G as originally defined.



It is ironic that this argument goes back nearly a year ago when Verizon and AT&T were advertising that they had 4G networks, and accusing the other company of only running a slightly modified 3G network when in fact both were doing it just a little differently.



...Rich

 

[EddieS'04]

Rich,



I get just as confused by all the 4G comercials. Same as the ford and chevy truck comercials. Who is the best in texas, heck who really knows..LOL



Problem with any of the 4G carriers is. Like me it is part time use. By the time you realize it is not what they advertised. Your locked into a 2 year contract.



I was lied to at the verizon store. They told me the tower at moms zip code supported 4G "not". The only good thing is when I went from 3g to 4g the monthly fee is $10 less.



Contracts is an area I wish the FCC could put a stop to. I would be willing to go with 6 month contracts. Im sure they are still making profit on the hardware at the reduced contract price.

 

[Richard L]

Eddie,

You don't have to sign a 2 year contract. Just buy your own phone at full price and you can have the same rates on a month to month term that you can cancel anytime you want. That's what I did with my AT&T BlackBerry and my Time/Warner Cable.



I even told TWC that I did not want any special deals tied to any contracts because if did not like their service, I wanted to be free to change or disconnect anytime I wanted. I don't like their service, but there is nothing else available in my new neighborhood except DishNetwork or DirecTV, and so I am looking at them now.



...Rich

 

[Mike Dziubina]

From what I understand, only about 5% of the nation is true 4G. these "4G" phones coming out supposedly are "4th Generation" phones.

 

[Richard L]

Mike,

I don't know the actual numbers, but most of the 4G phones are rated for true 4G, but it's the cellular network upgrades to 4G that are way behind. That's why Verizon and AT&T got the definition of true 4G changed so they could do cheap/quick upgrades to their 3G networks and call them 4G while they can take more time to actually implement the true 4G networks.



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

I just wish Apple would make a damn iPhone without a fricking camera. I don't care if is only 1/8 G, at least it wouldn't have a camera in it.





Tom



p.s. Blackberry's suck!!!

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

There are plenty of telephones on the market that do not have cameras and they are much cheaper than the iPhone or Blackberry, but they are not "SmartPhones".



The whole concept of a SmartPhone is to build all the latest technological bells, buttons, and whistles into the phone. An iPhone or BlackBerry are nothing more than small hand-held computers with cellphone capabilities.



Even now, you can buy cheaper cell phones that can still do most of the things that the SmartPhones can do, but cost well under $100 and you do not have to pay extra for data plans and texting if you don't want those features. You can even get simple Go-Phones, and Trac-Phones, etc for as little as $20 and you just pay in advance for your airtime minutes.



I think the general public wants more and more features and capabilities in their cell phones that will continue to grow, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.



The same things with cars...most of the buying public wants cars with all the gadgets, and power everything. Years ago, I never had any car with A/C, Stereo radio, Power Windows, Power Locks, Cruise Control, etc and now I would not even consider buying a vehicle without those features. Now add to that list, heated seats, navigation systems, satellite radio, auto dimming mirrors, power seats, auto headlights, rain sensing wipers, etc and you can see where this is going. What we perceive now as options today will become tomorrow's standard equipment.



If you just wanted basic transportation, they did make the Yugo, but it was a piece of junk and did not last more than a few years. Now they have the SmartCar. I think the quality is much better than the Yugo, but even it has a lot more features than some people would want for just basic transportation, and it's size will not fit everyone's lifestyle.



If you want simplicity, most people are turning to the older 1960's and 1970's cars. They are simple and easy to work on and don't have a lot of rocket science technology in them. Of course they do not get very good gas mileage, and depending on condition, they cost as much or more than a new car that has all the high tech features?



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

Rich,



Seriously! I swear you think I am a freaking idiot. I am far from it.



I know what a smart phone is and I wanted a smart phone, but one WITHOUT a camera. Not really much to ask. Finding a decent phone WITHOUT a camera is next to impossible.



I stepped up to a Blackberry Bold, WITHOUT a camera. I like being able to stream audio over the network (got unlimited data). A RIM Blackberry is pretty lame. Very slow to use and not very user friendly.



A iPhone is pretty cool, but getting one WITHOUT a camera is impossible because Apple will not do it.





Tom

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

I was not trying to insult your intelligence. The simple definition of SmartPhone is that it has all the bells, buttons, and whistles and about the only option is the amount of memory it has and the Price.



I have had two Blackberry Bold's and my current phone is a BlackBerry Bold 9700 and I have never seen one without a camera...that does not mean they don't exist, just rare, or odd.



If you don't need a camera, just don't use it.. Even if they made a SmartPhone without a camera, there would be little if any differnece in price.



I never felt I needed a camera in my cell phone, but later I found it handy on a few occasions. I also found a trick to turn the Video Camera Light into a great flashlight buy just reprogramming one of the Convenience buttons....Now that has been more valualbe to me than the camera itself...LOL



My point was that, like cars, the things that are options today are tomorrows standard features. I think some things like cameras in cell phones has become one of those options that has become "Standard". Also remember that if you want to send those photo's to someone, you need a data plan and/or you must pay more to send data...and photo files are larger than text. So the cellular companies stand to make more money on the data charges than they do on the price of the phones.



PS: UPDATE. I just checked and found that Verizon sells a Blackberry Bold 9650 without a Camera. They list the price at $315 !! I paid less than $200 for my Blackberry Bold 9700 which included the camera. Since I am not forced to use the camera feature, it sounds like a better deal to just get the phone, pay less, and just not use it. I'm sure the price depends upon the service contract you got with the phone, but in any case I doubt that the there would be much price difference with or without the phone.



....Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

If you don't need a camera, just don't use it..

When National Security is at stake, "just not using it" is not an option. I could leave it in the car, but then I might as well not have a cell phone...

PS: UPDATE. I just checked and found that Verizon sells a Blackberry Bold 9650 without a Camera. They list the price at $315 !! I paid less than $200 for my Blackberry Bold 9700 which included the camera.

My Bold 9650 WITHOUT a camera was $29.00. You got ripped off. :banana:





Tom

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

You never said that your job did not allow a camera inside the facility???



Also, I clearly stated that the price of the Blackberry is based on your cellular plan. The cheaper the phone is, the more you pay for your plan or the limitations on minutes, data, or texting. But I'm sure your $29 BlackBerry came with free, unlimited minutes, unlimited data, and unlimited texting...and the cellular company pays you to use their network..Ya right! :bwahaha:



So now the question is, where did you get a BlackBerry Bold 9650 for only $29?? They cost more than that on eBay and I cannot find anyone offering that phone for less than I paid for mine, and what cellular service do you have?



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

So now the question is, where did you get a BlackBerry Bold 9650 for only $29??

The carrier is Verizon. The plan include 1400 minutes and unlimited nights and weekends along with unlimited data. That was with a 2 year contract. I also get a 20% discount on my service because of the company I work for.



I prefer an iPhone, but since Apple thinks EVERYONE has to have a camera, you either get a camera or you don't get an iPhone.





Tom

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

I did some checking and the cheapest price that Verizon has for a Blackberry Bold 9650 is $99 and its the same price with or without a camera. Verizon does offer a Blackberry Curve 9330 for only $29 with a 2 year contract. So you either paid $99 for your Blackberry Bold 9650 with or without a camera, or you paid $29.99 for a Blackberry Curve 9330 with a camera.



Also, the Verizon 1400 minute plan is a Family plan with 2 phones and the plan cost $89.99 per month that does not include any data or texting plan. Texting can be included for $119 per month There is also an additional $29.99 charge for unlimited data and text which you claim you have. Verizon does offer a 75MB data (web/email) plan for only $10, but you claimed you have the unlimited data plan which would be the additional $29.99 for your SmartPhone. That would make your monthly bill close to $130-$150 not counting the usual add-on fees, taxes, or your 20% employer discount. I only pay $68 a month including all the fees and taxes and no discount??



Even with your 20% discount, I pay at least $30 and probably closer to $50 per month less than you do which makes my $199 BlackBerry Bold 9700 with a 5MB camera much cheaper, by more than $700 over the 2 year contract. Now who do you think got screwed in the long run???? I paid $199 for my BlackBerry up front, and YOU had to pay over 3 times more for yours over the 2 years of the contract.



Like I said, it all depends on the plan you choseand I think Verizon sucked you in with a cheap phone price then ripped you off over the 2 year contract.



Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

I did some checking and the cheapest price that Verizon has for a Blackberry Bold 9650 is $99 and its the same price with or without a camera. Verizon does offer a Blackberry Curve 9330 for only $29 with a 2 year contract. So you either paid $99 for your Blackberry Bold 9650 with or without a camera, or you paid $29.99 for a Blackberry Curve 9330 with a camera.

Rest assured, I am not this dumb. I have a Blackberry Bold and it DOES NOT have a camera.



I currently pay the following.



OTD, per month $130.00/month.



This includes the following...



4 phones

1400 peak minutes and unlimited off peak

Unlimited text on one line

Unlimited data on another line



This wasn't suposed to be a "My D!ck is bigger than yours" contest. This was simply me wanting a "good" smartphone WITHOUT a camera.





Tom

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

This wasn't suposed to be a "My D!ck is bigger than yours" contest. This was simply me wanting a "good" smartphone WITHOUT a camera.

Then why did you make this comment:

My Bold 9650 WITHOUT a camera was $29.00. You got ripped off.

You are paying $130 a month and I pay $68 a month that's $62 a month more for 2 years...so your $29 phone is costing you an additional $1488 for your BlackBerry Bold but I only paid $199 for my Blackberry Bold. So why do you think I got ripped off??? Even if you got 4 Blackberry Bolds at $29 each, that would still be an additional $372 per phone.



I am not trying to say my dick is bigger than yours, I only go back to my original statement that the phone without the camera would not be any cheaper than one with a camera so it made no sense why you did not want the camera...of course that was before you told me that you could not have a camera at work and I can understand that.



Then you tried to say I got Ripped off :banana:, when in fact it appears that you really got ripped off :bwahaha:, and for a whole lot more than I did :bwahaha:



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

You are paying $130 a month and I pay $68 a month that's $62 a month more for 2 years...so your $29 phone is costing you an additional $1488 for your BlackBerry Bold but I only paid $199 for my Blackberry Bold. So why do you think I got ripped off??? Even if you got 4 Blackberry Bolds at $29 each, that would still be an additional $372 per phone.

How many phone lines did you say you have?





Tom

 

[Tom Schindler]

You are paying $130 a month and I pay $68 a month that's $62 a month more for 2 years...so your $29 phone is costing you an additional $1488 for your BlackBerry Bold but I only paid $199 for my Blackberry Bold. So why do you think I got ripped off??? Even if you got 4 Blackberry Bolds at $29 each, that would still be an additional $372 per phone.

How many phone lines did you say you have?





Tom

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

How many phone lines did you say you have?



I only have one line, but that's all I need. I could add an additional 3 lines for $9.99 each which would be $30 a month more and you would still be paying $32 a month more than I pay. That's still a whopping $768 more YOU will pay over the 2 year contract.



This all started because I saw no reason why you would not want a camera in your phone since they would still cost the same. All you had to explain was that security at your job would not allow you to have a camera ...I understand that and have no issues with you not wanting a camera. Had you said that in your first post, none of this would have happened.



YOU then said the BlackBerry only cost $29...which sound pretty low, but you had to add the smart ass remark that I GOT RIPPED-OFF. Had you not said that, none of this would have happened !



The facts show that you will pay way more for your BlackBerry than I paid for mine, because the cost of the phone is included (hidden) as part of the service contract. The number of lines you have is mute since with 4 lines you are still paying $32 more per month than I would if I added 3 more phones to my account.



So, in the end it is YOU WHO GOT RIPPED OFF :bwahaha::banana::bwahaha:



...Rich