OT: More CNN News about Hypocrisy...Flaming Kittens!

[Thomas Rogers]

Another aspect of this argument is the concept of humane killing. I think there is no such thing. I'm okay with killing, but I don't really see a huge difference between clubbing a baby seal or killing a deer with high powered rifle. Sure, there might be more pain and suffering in throwing a life animal into a fire...but the end result is the same, and last time I checked, "pain and suffering" was an aspect of civil law, not criminal law, and "pain and suffering" for animals isn't covered under civil law.



TJR

 

[Paul Maurer 2]

I'm with Caymen- the guy showed blatant malice and disregard for life. I recommend setting one of his arms on fire for 30 sec. or so.....

 

[Thomas Rogers]

And yet we have another thread about killing prairie dogs... interesting.

 

[Josh Langel]

TJR... I disagree...



Next time your teeth are drilled on, I wouldn't use Novocain ... remember: in the end, it's all the same...



Oh, there is a difference ... one hurts.



That's were I see the difference... the method DOES MATTER.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I come from tough stock, Mud Flap. My grandfather used to pull his own teeth with a pair of pliers. Anyway, I agree that there are humane ways to treat humans and they are worth debating. But I disagree that there is a humane way to kill an animal. Killing is killing, it's not humane...with the only possible exception I can think of being mercy killings (euthanasia).



My point, and people can't get past it because of the kitten cuteness factor is that we, as a society have put different level of acceptance for the killing of animals, and the methods used to kill animals, depending on the animal.



The only thing "human" about that is that we rationalize our behavior in a seemingly illogical way...case in point: go to jail if you drop a kitten in boiling water but sit down for a nice dinner if you do the same with a lobster (sorry to reuse that example...but it's a good one).



TJR

 

[Josh Langel]

Killing is killing, it's not humane...with the only possible exception I can think of being mercy killings (euthanasia).

Talk abut a contradiction.



You've put it in the same context... you agree..there are humane ways of killing... yours is "mercy killing."

 

[Jeffrey Travis]

When a chef at one of your finer Chinese dining establishments throws a cat into the pan to make a little stir fry what is that listed as?



All I know....it tastes like chicken.



JT#14

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yes, Mud Flap what you call a contradiction I call an exception. Several years ago I was driving my son to Cub Scouts. On the way I noticed what appeared to be a road-killed opposum on the road 1/2 mile from our house. It was in the middle of the road...all messed up and dead looking. Later that night when we returned home, I noticed the same animal near the side of the road. Drat. I pulled over, went over with a flashlight (it was very dark), stood over it and shined the light on it. It was clear that it was still alive, but barely, with most of its guts on the outside. Seems it spent the better part of the last two hours crawling across the road.



So, my son, about 8 at the time, asked if it was "okay" when I returned to the car. I said, "No", and we should do the "humane" thing, and not let it suffer anymore...so, I backed the car up, and drove over it again, nice and square with the passenger side front tire and back tire. Then, I checked it again with the flashlight...most definately dead.



That's a mercy killing. I RATIONALIZED that the death was more humane than a short life of intense suffering, and I stand by that rationalization. I can live with it.



We all rationalize the animals we kill. That was my point. I don't, however, feel that we should consider killing for sport, or even killing for food HUMANE. Again, I have no problem with either of these things, I just don't feel the need to rationalize them as humane. We kill for a purpose...we are at the top of the food chain, we select animals that we don't mind seeing killed, and we kill them, some for food, some for sport, some to make our lives better. Just admit it, live with it, and don't get all bent out of shape when someone else kills an animal that you find cute, and cuddly...



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

What about plants? We kill them all the time. Plants are living things too.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

I suggest someone try an experiment. Don't kill or eat any animals and plants for six months and tell how it turns out after the experiment is over. :lol:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

True, Gavin, they are...but ironically we don't really seem to care about what a plant feels.



We seem to not care about the feelings of plants. Most people think plants don't actually feel pain...and they are probably right. Others think that smaller animals like earth worms don't feel pain, or that smaller animals like rodents, and such, don't have fear or have anxiety. I don't know for sure about any of this stuff. What I do know for sure, is that we rationalize what we want to do, and what we think we should do, in rather illogical and often a not very consistent manner. No one goes to jail for ripping the head of a dandelion, or a grashopper, or even a rat...but do the same to a little kitten, and you are doing time faster than Martha Stewart.

 

[Tom Schindler]

My point, and people can't get past it because of the kitten cuteness factor is that we, as a society have put different level of acceptance for the killing of animals, and the methods used to kill animals, depending on the animal.

I hate cats. I don't think they are cute. They make me sick to be in the same room with them. I don't feel killing them by throwing them in a fire is acceptable. Nor do I think it is funny to run them over.

The only thing "human" about that is that we rationalize our behavior in a seemingly illogical way...case in point: go to jail if you drop a kitten in boiling water but sit down for a nice dinner if you do the same with a lobster (sorry to reuse that example...but it's a good one).

Not quite the same point. Shellfish can be deadly if prepared wrong. A dead lobster before cooking can be deadly. Since we do not eat cats, there is no proper way to cook them...that we know of. Throwing a lobster into boiling water is the proper way to cook a lobster before eating. If the animal in question was a pet lobster, if there even is such a thing, throwing it into a pot of boiling water is not cooking it for food, but is was a tool to punish or hurt another individual.

I said, "No", and we should do the "humane" thing, and not let it suffer anymore...so, I backed the car up, and drove over it again, nice and square with the passenger side front tire and back tire. Then, I checked it again with the flashlight...most definately dead.

I have done somewhat the same thing, but I crushed that cats skull with a shovel. I hated doing it, but if I were in that much of pain, I would have wanted someone to do that for me.



I do know I would not have thrown it into a fire while still alive.

True, Gavin, they are...but ironically we don't really seem to care about what a plant feels.

Mythbusters busted the myth that plants feel pain.

No one goes to jail for ripping the head of a dandelion, or a grashopper, or even a rat...but do the same to a little kitten, and you are doing time faster than Martha Stewart.

A while back, a guy was arrested for feeding unwanted kittens to his pet snake. He won the case. I think the big difference is that a mouse or rat can be a nuisance and carry many diseases. When cats live in your walls and leave droppings on everything they walk on, then killing them to eliminate the problems they cause.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Many cultures have very specific ways of preparing cat for eating.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Many cultures have very specific ways of preparing cat for eating.

That might be very true. Ever eaten cat yourself?





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

No, Tom, not that I am aware.

 

[Jeff C]

Tom, I have. It was alright. Nothing special, tasted like chicken. I'm not for killing innocent animals, but at the same time, I'm at the top of the food chain. Millions of years of evolution put me there (along with some help from my parents). Cats evolved too, into mountain lions and tigers and what not. Point is, you shouldn't treat animals like humans. I have some turtles and some ferrets, and yeah, if someone hurt them, I'd be mad, but I would not expect them to go to jail. They're still just animals, living in cages. I'm pretty sure if you force a human to live in a cage, that's illegal.

 

[CountyMounty]

Wow another controversal post. The reason why killing a kitten is different from killing a lobster is simply because that is just the way things have evolved in our society. I can kind of understand people who want to get all philosophical and question these things of why is something this way but it still does not change the fact that it is the way it is. Why are several four letter words considered by many to be unexceptable language to use, are they not simply just another word. There are many other things that are not exceptable just because that is the way society sees it. That is the way it is and the way it needs to be there has to be guidelines, rules, morals.



I find what this guy did to be absolutely unacceptable and he deserves all he got and then some. It is not so much what he did (although that is bad enough) but the reason why he did it. He did it out of anger and to hurt his girlfriend. There is a strong connection between animal cruelty and domestic violence and this is no doubt a case of animal cruelty and domestic violence even if he did not strike her.



Here in Maine if you want to kill your pet (this has only been applied to dogs so far that I know of) there are basically two exceptable means, euthanasia or shooting. There have been several cases in recent past where dog owners have gotten in trouble for killing there own pets in other ways like drowning, poisoning, overdosing them on pills, running them over etc. Some of these were done in anger but some of them wanted to kill there pets because they were old and dying or were too mean to keep. One particular guy shot his dog, said he thought it was dead so he left it, and it wandered off to a nearby school, he was charged and was convicted of cruelty because he didn't make sure that it died instantly thus is was inhumane(he shot is with a 22 cal in the chest area just once). By the way the dog survived and was adopted by a loving family.



The bottom line in the case of this kitten killer is that it was done in a rage. If he had thrown her pet snake in the fire or pet pig or whatever it would still be the same to me, it would hurt her as much and his thought process would have been the same.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yeah, Firedog, I am getting pretty philosophical on this whole thing. Ultimately it comes down to societal norms and what society deems acceptable.

 

[Josh Langel]

...to eat a cat and to burn it alive out of hate are two different things...



I'm NOT (repeat: not) arguing which is okay to kill; I am arguing the fact that the method of killing does matter.

 

[Tom Schindler]

I'm NOT (repeat: not) arguing which is okay to kill; I am arguing the fact that the method of killing does matter.

Josh, I think it would also be safe to say not only the method but the reason for doing it. Hungry and your grab the family pet to eat, so be it. Kill the pet because your child pee'd in her bed, that is a different story all together.





Tom