OT: What do you think of the "comeback" cars?

[scott r]

Buzzworth, If I had my choice between a new GTO and a 69 Camaro, I'd have a camaro sitting in my driveway right now. They aren't exactly easy to find. Ever since I was a kid, I'd see a 68-69 camaro and drool. I've always loved those cars. It wouldn't hurt my feelings much if GM made an EXACT copy of the 69 Z28 body and stuffed a modern corvette frame/engine/suspension and a nice, classy interior in it. Others would probably throw huge fits about that, but I can guarantee them at least one sale the day they hit the showroom. hehe

 

[user 62785]

Baron... you mean like this one?



http://www.uniqueperformance.com/foose69convertible.aspx

[Broken External Image]:



Too bad it isn't about 120k cheaper!!! :lol:

 

[scott r]

Yep, that would work just fine for me. I'd be the first one in the door to buy one at my local Chevy dealer...even if I had to camp out outside for a week beforehand.

That styling is truly timeless. There aren't many other cars you can say that about.

By the way Martimus, I wasn't bashing your Mustang GT earlier, I was just saying that the goat and the mustang are really two very different cars. The mustang handles better according to nearly every mustang vs gto article I've read, but the gto eats it up in the 0-60 and 1320. The goat also has a much more friendly interior and ride.

I'm in the process of modifying the goat as we speak. I've had it for a whole two weeks and I've already ordered a cold air intake kit (K&N), Long Tube Headers and full Corsa exhaust to go behind the LTs, and I'm working on a cam/heads combination which should put me somewhere in the neighborhood of 525-550 crank horsepower. I think that will allow me to beat most Mustang GTs and Cobras that are running around out there. Or at least give 'em a good run for their money.

The first place I went when I was ready to trade off the trac was the local ford dealer, and the FIRST car I drove was the Mustang GT. They had a black one with red, leather interior. I had fallen in love with the car the first time I saw it. I actually filled out all the credit apps, got approved, then decided that I wanted to drive a GTO before I went through with getting the Mustang. Once I got in and drove the goat, there was really no going back. The seat of the pants difference is nothing short of spectacular. I guess the fact that I've had mostly GM vehicles most of my life made a bit of a difference too. I've had 3 Trans Ams and 1 Camaro, and only 1 Mustang Cobra (which was the fastest car I had ever owned until the goat).

All of these "comeback" cars really come down to personal preference. They get a rise out of people, either very positive or very negative. I've gotten more positive feedback from others concerning the GTO than most other vehicles I've owned. It seems that no matter where I go, somebody wants to look at it, or wants to know something about it. I would imagine that the first few mustang owners got the same thing. I bet the same will be true with the Challenger, the new Camaro and many of the other "comeback" cars.

 

[Terry Schultz]

In the era of musle cars, at age 19, I bought a 1968 Plymoth GTX 440 cuin. The other engine option on this car was a 426 Hemi (everyone I knew that had it BLEW it). I almost never lost to a GTO (once when he had "slicks" put on, I lost). 427 Vet made me look like my engine died at start:lol:



I drove it HARD and often and never had a "lick" of a problem with it. I hated to get rid of it when I got drafted and had to give my wife something reasonable to drive.



9 MPG in city - 11 on highway



Terry

 

[Richard L]

Baron,

As Caymen stated, the new GTO has all the power and performance of the golden days of muscle cars, it's just the looks of the new GTO that turns off most Americans who are familiar with the original looks of the GTO.



Even GM knows they screwed up with the styling and tried to had some hood scoops to satisfy the GTO purist, but missed the whole point. A few years before GM decided to build a new GTO they did a GTO styling exercise that was printed in several magazines that hinted that GM was looking to revive the GTO name plate. The GTO concept car was much tuffer looking and had numerous styling ques that showed it's early heritage. The new Marano GTO looks nothing like a retro GTO. It looks more like a cheaper Korean or Japanese import.



TSSS,

I had a 1965 GTO, and I regularly beat up on Vetts, SS Chevelles, Olds-442's on a regular basis. The only races I ever lost on the street or at the strip were to other GTO's and only a few of them!



...Rich

 

[Terry Schultz]

Rich -



What engine in that GTO ??? Best Stock engine or more ???



I see no W/L versus GTX - 440. (not being picky)



Vets' beat < what engine ???? 427 would smoke anyone back them !!! ALL ENGINE no weight.



Strip races are different than the street.



Terry

 

[scott r]

There aren't a lot of stock vehicles out there that can beat the modern GTO either. There's NOTHING under the GTO's price, of $33k that can even touch it.

The guy with the 2001 Vette was asked tonight how fast my car was, he replied "damn fast". His dad asked him if his sister's new Mustang GT could keep up with it and he said "not a chance".

Saying that the new goats are "fast" just doesn't do 'em justice. I shifted down the other day to pass someone at 50mph and the traction control kicked in to keep the GTO from roasting the tires...this was on DRY pavement. The thing is a BEAST! Without traction control, these things could be quite dangerous in the hands of someone who had never driven a rear-wheel drive performance car before. GM even put "torque management" on there in addition to traction control to keep the thing from being nearly unstreetable. The traction control can be turned off with a button, located on the center console, the torque management must be turned off by a tuner. I suspect that there would be nothing to keep this thing from going through a set of tires VERY quickly without the torque management enabled. I'll have to get back to y'all on that one, I should be getting mine turned off as soon as I come up with the $$ to get it tuned (which will give me an additional 30-50 horsepower according to the averages that most people get from this car). 450 horsepower without a single hardware modification is quite impressive in my book.

Does anybody know why they called the original GTO a "tiger"? Was it because of the commercial with the tiger popping out from under the hood? Or was it something else? I have heard that phrase often, I just never knew where it came from.

 

[Richard L]

TSSS,

Are you asking about my 1965 GTO, or are you asking about the new GTO?



Sorry but I don't understand any of your questions?



...Rich

 

[scott r]

I'm fairly sure he was asking about yours Richard. I just posted a reply for the heck of it. hehe

Have you had the chance to drive one of the new GTOs Rich?

 

[Johnny O]

Does anybody know why they called the original GTO a "tiger"? Was it because of the commercial with the tiger popping out from under the hood? Or was it something else? I have heard that phrase often, I just never knew where it came from.

You could probably find the answer online, but here's an educated guess. Back in the day, the factory-backed Pontiac hot-rod shop was Royal Pontiac in Royal Oak Michigan near Detroit.

They offered a hop-up called a "Bobcat Kit" consisting of thinner head gaskets, distributor recurve, and carb jets. Not a big stretch from a bobcat to a tiger...I guess. Or it could have been just some ad exec's idea.

 

[scott r]

Johnny, that sounds quite reasonable. I'll look it up when I get a bit of time and find out, that way we'll both have some additional information to stick in the "I'll never need to know that" part of our brains. hehe

 

[Johnny O]

we'll both have some additional information to stick in the "I'll never need to know that" part of our brains. hehe

With me it's the "always need to know" part of my brain. I have total recall for things automotive. It's a gift. Intake valve diameter of a 1970 Boss 302 was 2.19", down from the 2.25" in 1969.

 

[Johnny O]

Found this. 4 page article.

 

[user 62785]

Here's a couple of things I found on the GTO Tiger:

The GTO was dubbed a Tiger, because of its sleek lines; it's quickness, and its agility to handle curves. GM said that to have the car produced, Pontiac needed to get 5000 orders taken. Well, with the advertising handled by Jim Wangers, Pontiac had those orders in no time at all. They had so many orders; the Pontiac production lines couldn't keep up. They sold more than 20,000 units. Not bad for a mid year production.

Jim Wangers, along with everybody’s favorite felonious car executive Jon Z. DeLorean, more or less hatched the original GTO way back when. A few years later, in cahoots with the old Royal Pontiac store, Wangers was totally responsible for the Judge. He even copped gold at a few NHRA national events in the early ’60s in Pontiac Stockers, then became one of the hippest car marketers of all time. In ’66, Wangers’ GeeTO Tiger program was pure schtick, a promotional boil aimed at getting enthusiasts involved on the ground level. Selected individuals at certain dragstrip events would be invited to beat the Tiger (actually one of the Royal crew sweating into his socks beneath a ridiculous striped getup) in a heads-up race with two Goats: one with a black panel, the other with a white panel.

 

[Gavin Allan]

re: OT: What do you think of the "comeback" cars? by DiveTrac,12/3/2005 16:19 CT



Funny...that link baron iV posted makes me think that this is the new Camaro:

That's no Camaro! That's a 1970 Firebird with Ram Air!

 

[scott r]

This link is a post about this very topic on the GTO forums. Maybe it can shed some light on the subject.

 

[Travis Munday]

Baron-

That article is rubbish. They didn't do enough fact checking before they ran it. Adapted Aussie model? No, it IS the Aussie model, but with the steering wheel on the wrong side and the gas tank in the trunk. The "American Muscle" touches that the article mention are found in the Monaro as well. Doesn't live up to the name? Moreso then many want to admit. If you sqaured off the corners, made the interior cheaply, gave it a solid rear axle and round headlamps, you'd sell a million of them....but wait, that's what nearly every other 'retro' car is doing.....



Regardless, the fact is, another one people don't know or care to remember, is that the GTO was never meant to be a "Mustang Killer". Sure, it does many, many things better then the 'Stang, but espically sales wise, it was never meant to compete. Not now, not in the '60s. The Mustang is a Pony Car, the GTO is not. It's something much, much more.

 

[scott r]

I was talking more about the responses to the article than the article itself, hehe.

You are right though, there's virtually no difference in the Monaro/Vauxhall version other than some basic body modifications. GM got that right...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I don't remember when the original GTOs came out, but wasn't it pretty much designed to beat ANYTHING on the road? I kinda doubt that the original GTOs had much trouble with anything it pulled up next to, including the Mustangs, Corvettes, Chevelles and many of the Mopar vehicles. That's still the case today. The regular charger can't even touch it, a corvette can barely hold its own, the Mustang doesn't have a chance. NOTHING at the GTO's price level can come even semi-close to matching its speed and power. You have to jump up to nearly DOUBLE the GTO's price to find something that can outrun it in a straight line.

 

[Travis Munday]

Well, Vettes didn't really get serious about performance until '67 with the 450HP 427. A GTO wouldn't hold a candle to that, even though the 'Vette was/is a Trans Am racer and not a straight-line special like the GTO.



Yeah, The Aussies built one heck of a car with the Monaro, but when GM brought it to America, they made it kinda ugly compared to the Vauxhall/Holden.



Interestingly enough, there already was a Holden Monaro GTO, it was a high-pro version of a stock Monaro, built by HSV, Holden Special Vehicles. It had lowered and beefier suspension, big ol' 19" wheels, huge disc brakes with 6-pot calipers, 4 in the back, and various other goodies. GM should've imported some version of that rather then the base Monaro....would've helped in the twisties. But the GTO did win the Formula D drift championship with Aussie Rhys Millen behind the wheel. Factory backed too. Beat the Mustang as well. And Vipers, Silvias, all those other high-powered and traditional drifters.

 

[scott r]

You can powerslide this GTO through the corners extraordinarily easy. A monkey could drift in this car...at least at lower speeds. I'm sure it's a helluva lot different at 90+ mph.