Support your president, he needs all the help he can get.

[Dre L]

When was the last time the media reported positive stories from Iraq for more than 1 consecutive day? Never mind the fact that 13 of 17 provinces are peaceful and relatively safe. How many soldiers come back from Iraq and say that our mission is failing? It's only the media and the left wing politicians. Do our soldiers want to be there? Most probably not. But all of them VOULENTEERED to be there. Did GWB want to go to Iraq? debateable. Is GWB a good president? I believe so.

Fair enough. I can name plenty of bad things with Bush, YOU name 10 good things Bush has done while in office. Forgive me if I don't keep the Jeopardy music playing for you.



I think he's ineffective as a leader, much less a president. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

So, we're down to "He sux cause his poll numbers are low" and "Michael Moore Says He sux"

No, Michael Moore always said he sucked, that's a biased opinion. No one believes in polls.

Before you spout Michael Moore propiganda, you really need to look at facts. Things can definately be better both here and abroad. I believe the president is actually trying to do change things and do something about the problems. The Democrats and Michael Moores and nobleman's of the country are just criticizeing and not offering ideas.

Here's an idea, let's hold our breath and wait for your beliefs to come true. Maybe if you hold your breath and close your eyes, and scrunch up your face real hard, he will make a difference before his term ends.



Nobleman said:

NO ONE CARES ABOUT MARS RIGHT NOW. It's not all Bush's fault, but damn, get up there and snap all these agencies in line, and DO YOUR F'N JOB.

Well damn if that doesn't sound constructive, a president getting all of the government to actually work together and help the people.



Oh, and the contract with america was nothing but a political ploy to win the house, they planned it for years, America bit.



So we won the cold war, great. Now Russia is FUBAR, there's a bunch of renegade nukes trading hands, we're dismantling nukes right and left, and fighting the people we trained and equipped to fight the russians when they invaded afghanistan, while paying off a deficit mainly due to an insane arms race. Great, we're in a much better state.



The economy has a life all its own. If people in the US make money, they can spend money. The rich getting breaks does not trickle down to the poor, because the rich will slow the trickle to get richer. DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A RICH GUY HAS THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE POOR IN MIND?



Wait, I know one that does.

 

[John Mastrocco]

It has been scientifically proven that a poll can be accurate when projected to a larger population from a much smaller sample population. But it has to be a controlled sample group that accurately represents the larger population and it has to have questions that are not slanted to a particular purpose.



No, it won't have 1/3 dem, 1/3 rep and 1/3 ind because that does not accurately reflect the registered political makeup of the USA.



As for no one believing polls - both political parties place a lot of stock in polls, especially the nationally recognized ones like Gallup. So does the President and his advisors. They may not let the polls dictate policy, but they always keep the results in mind so they can do damage control or try to sway the people prior to announcing the decision. (Social Security anyone?) Do you really believe Bush's popularity ratings didn't have anything to do with him taking responsibility the other day? I bet you see a rise in his ratings in polls taken after that admission. And that's what the admission was designed to do as much as anything else. That's politics.



You can tell a poll that was commissioned with a purpose in mind, but just because soe of those can be dismissed as bogus or designed to get a specific result doesn't mean they are all bogus.



And while they don't get as much press, there are plenty of polls that are run with the intent to get a conservative slant to the results. Just watch Fox News.

 

[Tom Schindler]

nobleman said,

DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A RICH GUY HAS THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE POOR IN MIND?

Do you honestly think a "poor" person or even a "middle-class" person will ever get into a political office? Never. The rich, with thier donations, or as I call them "Bribes" will never allow it.





Tom

 

[Eric Pennal]

Do our soldiers want to be there? Most probably not. But all of them VOULENTEERED to be there. Did GWB want to go to Iraq? debateable.

You have GOT to be kidding. Almost NONE of them volunteered to go to Iraq.



You think it's debatable whether Bush wanted to invade Iraq? Not only was he impatient to go in, evidence shows this administration manipulated intelligence to justify it.

 

[Gavin Allan]

I thought we had a volunteer military? Did the draft come back?

 

[Bill V]

R Shek--



Who are you trying to kid? If the polls showed a higher than 50% approval rating for Bush, all we'd be hearing about from the Republicans is how great he is, and how those polls prove it. (In fact, that is what happened, when the Republicans looked at the election results--which are basically a wide-scale poll--saw 51%, and declared it to be a mandate.) But now that the shoe is on the other foot, you want to declare polls/surveys to be meaningless? How about a bit of consistency here...

 

[Tom Schindler]

Gavin,



Give it time. The draft will be back.





Tom

 

[Dre L]

Do you honestly think a "poor" person or even a "middle-class" person will ever get into a political office? Never. The rich, with thier donations, or as I call them "Bribes" will never allow it.

Actually, I was referring to a rich person getting all the tax breaks and passing the benefits down to the lesser-classes via corporate growth, job training, more jobs, etc... , but I should have clarified that.



The whole trickle-down theory referred to the piss that would trickle down to the poor when a rich guy pisses on everyone else.



When you give a rich guy more breaks, usually they just keep it to themselves, or give it off to charity every now and then.



The working class meanwhile can't catch a break.



Obviously a poor-working class person can't get into office, he wouldn't understand "the system", completely destroy it, ruin it for the rich guy, something good might get done, and then the president would be assasinated.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

EricP,



Many of the folks in our unit volunteer to go to Iraq. In fact, one of our slots was canceled today, and the guy that was going was truly disappointed that he isn't going now. I don't know his motives, but it made me feel good to know that a guy was so gung-ho to leave his wife and kids behind for six months for his country.

 

[John Mastrocco]

Maybe he can't stand the wife and the kid is a whiny brat?



:lol:



Seriously, I bet there are as many people there that want to be there as don't want to be there.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Rocco-

Ever taken a college statistics course? Polls are inherantly inaccurate. Projections are inherantly inaccurate. You can calculate one was on a poll and get a +/- 3%, but another calcuation (using a differnt formula, there are about 30 formulas for statistical comparison) you get a +/- 50%.



A poll of 1001 people, a number used regular is far from a sample size large enough to get the "pulse" of the country.



You can definately see how much the different parties relate to polls. Clinton polled on weather or not to go to China for a summit. Bush does what he feels is best for the country. Clinton's chronies did a poll about pulling out of Somalia. Bush is still in Iraq even after 1800 soldier deaths.



Asfar as manipulating the intelligence... was this the same intelligence that Germany saw and agreed with? How about the UN? France? England? Russia? Bill Clinton? Al Gore? John Kerry? Wait, wasn't it John Edwards who said that Saddam Hussain was a Clear and PResent danger? Still havn't seen ANY evidence that Bush or Cheney said such a thing. Still waitin gon the evidence that the current administration manipulated intelligence to go to war. The WMD's were only 1 of 13 differnt reasons we went to Iraq. The main reason that the congress voted on going in was the 14 different UN bills that Iraq was in violation of, plus in violation of the Cease Fire from the first Gulf War. As soon as Saddam Hussain violated the cease fire, the war was back on. When did that happen? well before 1996. Firing on US war planes enforcing the No Fly Zone was an act of war. Bill Clinton decided (based on Polling BTW) that it was not worthwhile to go full-scale into Iraq. If he had, maybe we wouldn't be in there today. Maybe 9/11 would not have happened (I am not debating the connections or lack there of between 9/11 and Iraq, simply stating that terrorists MAY have taken notice, simple conjecture).



Would Republicans be out there beating the drums if his numbers were above 50% Probably. I'm not a Republican so I really don't care what they do. You can be Democrats would have counter polls showing the opposite (as Republicans do now).



Way too much interest is placed in polls for what they are useful for (nothing).

No, Michael Moore always said he sucked, that's a biased opinion. No one believes in polls.

Noblemen said it himself.

Fair enough. I can name plenty of bad things with Bush, YOU name 10 good things Bush has done while in office. Forgive me if I don't keep the Jeopardy music playing for you.



I think he's ineffective as a leader, much less a president. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Sorry, I couldn't find 10, will 30 work?



1) Tax cuts for all tax payers

2) Removed a muderous dictator from power (Iraq) freeing 22 million people

3) Removed a murderous regime from power (Afganistan) freeing 25 million people

4) Strengthened the US Military

5) Missle Defence Shield

6) Fought off the UN's Global Tax efforts

7) Landmark educational reforms

8) USA Freedom Corps

9) Strengthing the PEach Corps

10) Job Creationa and Workers Assitance Act

11) A New Nuclear Arms Treaty

12) Signed a bill reaffirming the "One Nation, under God" in the Pledge

13) Signed a bill reaffirming the "In God We Trust" Motto

14) Homeland Security Act

15) Nationwide Amber Alert

16) Significant increases in AIDS research funding (more than doubles Clinton's spending)

17) Significant increase in assistance to Africa for poverty relief

18) Do Not Call Registry

19) Fair Credit and Accurate Credit Transactions Act

20) Increase in Medicare Spending

21) Perscription Drug program added to Medicare

22) Libya disarms it's nuclear capability

23) American Dream Downpayment Act

24) Unborn Victims of Violence Act

25) Identity Theft and Penalty Act

26) Working Families Tax Relie

 

[Fred]

#29 :lol:

 

[Eric Pennal]

#30 :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Fred]

[Broken External Image]:

 

[TrainTrac]

7) Landmark educational reforms

This was good thing?:huh: It's Unconstitutional! Education was something that that the Founders deemed to be left up to the states. This was just another example of politcal posturing and more Big Gov't.

8) USA Freedom Corps

9) Strengthing the PEach Corps

10) Job Creationa and Workers Assitance Act

Again, not part of the Constitutionally granted powers of the Federal Gov't.

14) Homeland Security Act

Yup, the surefire best way to deal with any national tradgedy or attack is what??? Expand the Federal Gov't! We've sure seen over the last few weeks how well the Dept of Homeland Security functions!:huh:

16) Significant increases in AIDS research funding (more than doubles Clinton's spending)

17) Significant increase in assistance to Africa for poverty relief

How are significant increases in gov't spending a "good thing"?:huh:

20) Increase in Medicare Spending

21) Perscription Drug program added to Medicare

Once again, an increase in gov't spending, and an expansion of big gov't entitlement programs. Nothing more than politcal posturing and vote-buying schemes. Getting more people more dependent on gov't... sounds like Socialism.

 

[Dale Carter]

OK class, pay attention while I explain Trickle Down with a simple example.



President Reagan made an accounting change that permitted more rapid depreciation of assets for businesses, enabling my family business to fully depreciate a tow truck or forklift every three years rather than every five. Believe it or not, we could wear a rollback wrecker out in less than fiive years. The new change allowed us to buy trucks every three years rather than every five without losign the depreciation credit, which means that Ford sold more F450 Duper Duty trucks to businesses like our all across America, which meant they needed more employees, which meant that a lot of hard working blue-collar men had jobs. Those guys took that money and, for example, added on to their house or bought a new truck etc etc which dumped MORE money into the lower end of the economy when carpenters, roofers and plumbers were hried to build that guys roof, or assemble that new pickup. Not to mention that the lower income guys at work drove nicer and safer equipment which made them more productive so that they earned bigger bonuses each week. BTW, I was one of those dirvers.



Tax cuts also resulted in greater investment, which funded huge amounts of R&D, which was a major reason for the tech boom.



These are simplified examples, but they are valid.



BTW, this example is not a theory, it is factual from our own small business. Same thing happened, on a MUCH larger scale for bigger businesses.



Economists have a term for this process, the economic mulitplier.



Of course, people who believe that the little guy is always getting screwed by the big guy, will ignore facts and reason so that they can continue with their oppression fantasy.



Class dismissed.

 

[TrainTrac]

Thanks for the lesson, Teach!



Tax cuts always result in the growth of the economy and also more gov't revenue. The ones complaining about "tax cuts for the rich" are either trying to incite class warefare or don't understand the whole economic process to begin with and aren't paying taxes to begin with.



Only those paying taxes get tax cuts! Duh!

 

[Dre L]

1) Tax cuts for all tax payers - Especially the rich, but let's pass some onto the rest because they'll take a bribe and shutup and not notice that the pres is an idiot.

2) Removed a muderous dictator from power (Iraq) freeing 22 million people. - His daddy should have done it the first time around, or maybe the Iraqi people should have stood up in revolt, or maybe the USA should have armed the Iraqi's like we did the Afghani and Saddam's regime.

3) Removed a murderous regime from power (Afganistan) freeing 25 million people - see #2, and by the way, if he didn't, the US would stage a coup since he did nothing to retaliate for 9/11.

4) Strengthened the US Military - what choice did he have, he was going to war, and then to invade another country for no reason other than a hard on for pissing everyone off.

5) Missle Defence Shield - Star wars anyone?

6) Fought off the UN's Global Tax efforts - Yeah, um so did every other "non-third-world" country out there.

7) Landmark educational reforms - List them please.

8) USA Freedom Corps - Free labor for the government. Built on the "we have a peace corps for other countries, what about here at home"

9) Strengthing the PEach Corps - Georgia doesn't need anymore help harvesting peaches.

10) Job Creationa and Workers Assitance Act - which we wouldn't need if we WEREN'T IN A GOD DAMN RECESSION.

11) A New Nuclear Arms Treaty - TRANSLATED: We can't afford to maintain all these damn nukes which are leaking, and useless. It is enough that we can destroy the world 20 times, Ron Reagan pushed it a bit with 80 times, hell the Russians could only do it 73 times.

12) Signed a bill reaffirming the "One Nation, under God" in the Pledge - Thank God, millions won't go hungry now, or homeless, or suffer, or whatever... we agreed on a pledge.

13) Signed a bill reaffirming the "In God We Trust" Motto - Great, all the homeless can read it off the dollar I give them.

14) Homeland Security Act - A facade, next time something blows up you can read #13 off the back of the burning cash in the streets.

15) Nationwide Amber Alert - The AMBER Plan was created in 1996 as a powerful legacy to 9-year-old Amber Hagerman, a bright little girl who was kidnapped and brutally murdered while riding her bicycle in Arlington, Texas. The tragedy shocked and outraged the entire community. Residents contacted radio stations in the Dallas area and suggested they broadcast special “alerts” over the airwaves so that they could help prevent such incidents in the future.



In response to the community’s concern for the safety of local children, the Dallas/Fort Worth Association of Radio Managers teamed up with local law-enforcement agencies in northern Texas and developed this innovative early warning system to help find abducted children. Statistics show that, when abducted, a child’s greatest enemy is time.



In April, 2003, President Bush signed the Amber Alert legislation making it a national program. While the Amber Alert system is now mandated across the country, some states are still trying to implement the procedures necessary in bringing the alerts to the public. Hampered by outdated Emergency Broadcast guidelines and different activation criteria in each state, the system needs a fair amount of fine-tuning to be optimally effective. Code Amber is on the cutting edge with the technology helping to make that a reality. -- HEY SHEK, THAT'S "1". CONGRATS, even though CITIZENS started the whole thing.

16) Significant increases in AIDS research funding (more than doubles Clinton's spending) - as will the next president, this is practically tradition and goes up with each administration due to rising costs and inflation (Kind of like the cost of living, but not the minimum wage).

17) Significant increase in assistance to Africa for poverty relief - Mention that to the poor here, those *******s think he does nothing for poverty.

18) Do Not Call

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Wow, Nobleman, you cut and paste that from somewhere or have you been keeping track. Actually, regardless the answer, it kinda makes you a zealot!



TJR

 

[TrainTrac]

Kinda makes him a zealot? I don't think there's any "kinda" about it. His responses aren't based in fact, merely rhetoric, slander, sarcasm and canned liberal talking points. They could've come right from Michael Moore's web site.

1) Tax cuts for all tax payers - Especially the rich, but let's pass some onto the rest because they'll take a bribe and shutup and not notice that the pres is an idiot.

10) Job Creationa and Workers Assitance Act - which we wouldn't need if we WEREN'T IN A GOD DAMN RECESSION.

30) Restored the dignity to the Office of the President of the United States - Except for the imbesil in charge, who's brought question to the intelligence of the office.

Once again, the tired old class warfare, "tax cut for the evil rich" mantra. In our current progressive tax system, 80% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 20% of income earners, and 96% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 50% of income earners. Why shouldn't those who pay the largest share of the taxes get the biggest tax cuts? Or should they just keep paying more taxes? This is essentially punishing those who achieve success. And if it continues, then those achievers will cease earning income so they don't get punished with high taxes. Whom do you consider to be the "rich"? Most people opposed to tax cuts label anyone who has an income >$90,000/year to be rich. So does that make a married couple with a combined household income of $100,000 rich? I don't think so.



And the fact of the matter is, we're not in a recession. According to the U.S. Dept of Commerce's Bureau of Economic Analysis, the economy as measured by Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has been steadily growing since Fourth Quarter 2001 The last time GDP was in the negative was Third Quarter 2001, obviously due to 9/11. Source: http://www.bea.gov/bea/dn/home/gdp.htm, "Tables from news release". And why has the economy steadily continued to grow? Because of those tax cuts for the "evil rich". Fact is, when rich people and corporations get tax cuts, they turn around and reinvest it right back in the economy, causing it to grow.



So, the only things I haven't discussed now are the points about the President being an idiot and an "imbesil", or imbecile. On what fact are these allegations based? The man has a degree from Yale and a Harvard MBA. You can't be an idiot or an imbecile and get into, let alone graduate from these schools.



So I guess if you can't debate using facts, logic, or reason, you just result to name calling. That speaks for itself.