Sweet TRANSIT STRIKE

[Tim Reynolds]

Rocco,



I don't want to start a pissing match with you but when my (and my wifes) employer starting chipping in less for health insurance, here's what happened:



1) We sucked it up and paid more money for it.

2) We realized that in essence it was a pay cut, especially because we only average 3% COL raises.

3) Also realized that if it was so unfair that we could find employment elsewhere.

4) Reserved the right to bitch about it, we did, then got over it.



The rest of us mere mortals have to put up with this so why are they any different?

 

[Jeff Geist]

Let's no forget what a drain the union can be on a company. To prove this isn't entirely my opinion, let's look at some facts. Within Verizon, the union employees have an absence rate of 6.5% that have costed the company over $261 million dollars. The non-union employees are absent 1.5% of the time and cost just over $6 million. Do you know why? Because the so-called protector of the union employees (union officials) have found loophole after loophole in the contract to allow union reps to go out on sick leave when they are not sick...for days...and even months. Union employees go out on disability (receiving their free medical coverage) and return just before their disability runs out and then like magic...once they're eligible for more short term or long term disability...they're back out again. While this doesn't represent the entire union population, it represents a significant portion of the population prove this as a fact...and not an opinion. The bottom line is that when people don't show up, everyone gets screwed from non-union to senior management to the customers.

 

[John Mastrocco]

Q,

So you are advocating that a company should be able to commit to and set up a pension fund, then not fund it properly?



So much for commitments or treating your employees fairly.



And it's not the 'taxpayer's' money. It belongs to the MTA and is meant to be used to fund the MTA. That funding is supposed to meet the commitments the MTA has already made and the rest is supposed to be used to improve the transit system. They are not required to return it to the treasury. They are totally "self funding" at this point, and have accumulated a $1 Billion surplus but at the expense of disaster training, funding the current retirement fund and infrastructure.



I had friends that worked in the MTA when I lived in NYC and to let you know, the vast majority of the jobs with the MTA are not "unskilled laborers". It includes electricians, engineers (motor men), routers, carpenters, masons, iron workers, mechanics and a lot of other jobs that require high levels of skill and training. They may not be professionals, but they are far from unskilled. Calling them "unskilled laborers" just shows your ignorance.



Once again - if you already had those benefits after negotiating them and your business was trying to take them away from you tell me you wouldn't fight to keep them. Tell me you don't want the same things Union workers want, or in this case have. You'd take it in a heartbeat if it was offered or you could negotiate it. Are you saying you'd turn down double your standard raise for the good of the company? Nope. You'd say you deserve it. What gall you have saying they don't deserve it because they are union members. Have you ever done any of their jobs? Are you so damned sure they are all 'unskilled laborers'? You don't have a clue what they do to earn their salaries so why don't you stop talking like you do.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Union members pay union dues that allow us to stand together with one voice and say we are sick and tired of it and we will not put up with it any more.



When you buy a car, the salesman gives you a high number, you give him a low number. You two settle in the middle. Exactly how contract negotiations work.





Tom

 

[Frank Marano]

This isnt the first "company" to go on strike. So why all the negative bullcrap about the MTA? If each and every one of us was in the same situation, you would be doing the same thing. And nobody say they would not strike while the rest of your coworkers went ahead and did because that would be complete BS.....

 

[John Mastrocco]

Hefhay,

They did lower their raise to less than 6%. The MTA raised their offer 0.5%.



If the Union employees are taking advantage of loopholes, then management should close the loopholes, rather than let them continue. And you are right - the union should make sure the slackers are eliminated. But it's like you said - the majority of the union workers are no different than the majority of the non-union workers.



Ask yourself this: would the non-union employees do it any differently if they thought they could get away with the same behavior? Are you saying you've never taken advantage of a loophole that was in your favor?



TimR,

So, it's "I can't so why should they?" Is that the way it works? "His cookie is bigger than mine! It's not fair!"

You asked:

The rest of us mere mortals have to put up with this so why are they any different?

Let me ask you this:

Why should anyone HAVE to put up with it? Would you put up with it if you thought you could do something about it?

I doubt it.



Union members have the ability to TRY to do something about it. Why do you begrudge them that ability?

 

[Benjamin Feinstein]

You know what I find funny about most Union situations where more money is involved? Union employees have to pay dues! Here where I work we have a union but since Virginia is a right to work state I dont have to join. Which is good because non union employees get the same benifits including the pension that the Union employees get but we dont have to pay the dues.

 

[Frank Marano]

we dont have to pay the dues.

And when your employer throws you out on your behind for no good reason....you would have wished you paid those dues.

 

[John Mastrocco]

Ashaman,

And you think that's fair? Sounds like someone is getting the free ride most anti-union people claim union members are getting.

Yep, that's the American way - take advantage of the work and sacrifice of others for your own benefit without having to give up a thing. You should be proud of yourself.

 

[Jake Levin]

A coworker of mine used to be part of the TWU. First day on the job he replaced a starter on a bus. Book said it should take 2 workers 8 out to replace, he did it alone in 30 minutes. Union boss told him to get lost for the rest of the day and paid him a full day and a full day's overtime... Looks like there's something wrong here IMO

 

[John Mastrocco]

I used to work with a guy that thought he should get paid more money than anyone without a college education. He actually begrudged anyone that wasn't 'educated' making more money than he did. Forger experience. Forget knowledge and skill. Forget the number of years worked. They didn't have a sheepskin so they shouldn't get more than him.



There's a lot of that guy in the anti-union crowd. I can't/don't have it so why should they?



Yep! That's the American way!



And with that, I'm not only leaving this discussion, I'm leaving this forum. I don't post often enough to make it worth sticking around and I haven't owned an ST for 20 months.



So, adios.



And Caymen - keep trying to educate the ignorant about unions. Probably won't do any good, but keep it up anyway.



Bye all!

John

 

[Thomas Rogers]

MTA emps do and have had it pretty good, IMHO. I used to live in NY and commute via Metro North to NYC and use the subways. I know the system and its workers, and I respect them and the great job they do.



But, not many employers left these days that pay full benefits, good salaries, allow people to retire at 55 with full pension, and give good pay raises each year. Yes, it's a tough job, but sometimes I wonder if those striking know just how "bad" it is in the rest of corp America.



Regardless, people will pay, as any demands met will simply mean passing the price on to the passengers. THat's just the facts and most in NY and NYC have no choice but to pay the higher prices.



TJR

 

[Tim Reynolds]

I really don't care about cookie size, like I said, if I think it sucks that bad then I'll get a new job. Isn't what they are doing illegal? How about that?

 

[Jeff C]

Bye, John.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

See you later Rocco. Thanks for your insight. Sorry to see you go.



But, before you go, Rocco, let me say that you are right. Jealousy and envy do foster a lot of anti-union sentiment. But so does a sense of frustration and a feeling of helplessness along with a wonderment as to "who's got my back?". Many people would love a union job, especially an MTA type job and the benefits it provides. Trying to get one has always been a difficult proposition as MTA jobs are very hard to come by, and affirmative action and neopotism take many of them (seriously).



There are two perspectives in the world, and people subscribe to one or the other of them; and they are the SCARCITY and the ABUNDANCE perspectives. What you are describing with the cookie size is the SCARCITY mentality in which if someone else gets something good that means there is that much less of it for me. I believe we all make our own abundance of good fortune in this world.



TJR

 

[Deleted deleted]

Thank you Rocco for interjecting your knowledge into this forum. This site will not be the same without you.



Seems to be a few here like to spout their 'knowledge' when they have no clue about what they are talking about, and have no desire to look at both sides of the issue and discuss in a sane manner.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Public servants generally have a right to join unions which gives them collective bargaining rights. However, public servants do not have a right to strike, because they perform essential duties that protect the life and safety of the general public. What they MTA employees have done is unlawful and places the city's citizens in jeopardy.

 

[Frank Marano]

What they MTA employees have done is unlawful and places the city's citizens in jeopardy.

In jeopardy of what? Being late to work?

 

[Deleted deleted]

The folks in NYC ever heard of WALKING?

 

[Frank Marano]

NY court is fineing the NY transit union 1 million a day now......just on msnbc.com