Sweet TRANSIT STRIKE

[Thomas Rogers]

What kind of capitalist, corporate-run America propoganda is that, Nelson!



(just kidding).



Good study. Thanks!

 

[TrainTrac]

Modern Industry has converted the little workshop of the patriarchal master into the great factory of the industrial capitalist. Masses of laborers, crowded into the factory, are organized like soldiers. As privates of the industrial army, they are placed under the command of a perfect hierarchy of officers and sergeants. Not only are they slaves of the bourgeois class, and of the bourgeois state; they are daily and hourly enslaved by the machine, by the over-looker, and, above all, in the individual bourgeois manufacturer himself. The more openly this despotism proclaims gain to be its end and aim, the more petty, the more hateful and the more embittering it is.



But with the development of industry, the proletariat not only increases in number; it becomes concentrated in greater masses, its strength grows, and it feels that strength more. The various interests and conditions of life within the ranks of the proletariat are more and more equalized, in proportion as machinery obliterates all distinctions of labor, and nearly everywhere reduces wages to the same low level. The growing competition among the bourgeois, and the resulting commercial crises, make the wages of the workers ever more fluctuating. The increasing improvement of machinery, ever more rapidly developing, makes their livelihood more and more precarious; the collisions between individual workmen and individual bourgeois take more and more the character of collisions between two classes. Thereupon, the workers begin to form combinations (trade unions) against the bourgeois; they club together in order to keep up the rate of wages; they found permanent associations in order to make provision beforehand for these occasional revolts. Here and there, the contest breaks out into riots.



Now and then the workers are victorious, but only for a time. The real fruit of their battles lie not in the immediate result, but in the ever-expanding union of the workers. This union is helped on by the improved means of communication that are created by Modern Industry, and that place the workers of different localities in contact with one another. It was just this contact that was needed to centralize the numerous local struggles, all of the same character, into one national struggle between classes. But every class struggle is a political struggle. And that union, to attain which the burghers of the Middle Ages, with their miserable highways, required centuries, the modern proletarian, thanks to railways, achieve in a few years.



Marx, Karl. (1848) The Communist Manifesto

 

[Johnny O]

During the post WWII economic boom, the available pool of workers was so large and competition was so stiff to hire them that employers were forced to offer these types of benefits as incentives to recruit workers for their companies.

Actually the concept of benefits started during WWII to attract workers because of a worker shortage and the govt-imposed wage and price controls. The war effort was using resources but at the same time people were making more money than they had for a long time, and the govt wanted to keep the demand for goods and services down. When my wife quite her job to start her own company, we had Cadillac health insurance but at a $700 monthly COBRA payment that didn't last real long.

 

[TrainTrac]

OK, I stand corrected. Thanks, Johnny. But my main point still stands.



What was once an incentive is now regarded as an expected entitlement.

 

[Gerald Pierce]

What other choice does one have to get contract negotiations settled? Some people have worked years without a contract. Is that fair? Once you get to a breaking point, the only real way to get the point across is to strike.

How about just go get another job? I heard others say "why shouldn't workers have healthcare" and "why shouldn't we be able to afford to send our kids to college". Why is the employer liable for this?



If you don't have a contract or don't like the one you have.... get a job with a different employer. Don't like your paycheck? Get more educated and find a better paying job somewhere else. Striking is nothing more than strongarming. Reminds of when I was a kid "if you dont give me a piece of your candy, I'm going to whip your a$$".



Unions have done good things for the workers, but I think that is all overshadowed by the fact they have used strongarm tactics get things from employers by convincing employees that benefits are rights they are entitled to instead of what they really are -- things used by employers to attract higher quality workers or to retain the same.



When the Transit Workers (or GM or Ford or whoever) lose their jobs because the company went bankrupt, I hope they are happy in the unemployment line. It may not happen now, but it will happen.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Why no just quit and get a different job, because being union means you negotiate a contract that both parties can live with. If one party is not willing to budge, then you strike to stand your ground.



More education does not always mean a "better job". Ever hear of being turned down for being too educated?





Tom

 

[Dre L]

If your employer changes the playing field during your employment, it can be for one of two reasons:



you have no contract and are non-union.



or



you are union and your contract has expired.



If you are one of those that says: "When our employer f**ks us, we sit there and suck it up." Or "Yeah, if I don't like what my employer is doing, I go find another job."



How wonderful of you. Go do whatever you want. That's your choice. Don't expect everyone to bend over and say "sure, change the terms we agreed on when I started working here. We had a verbal contract and you're changing it, but that's okay."



Just because you have some holier than thou attitude because you are willing to take it, does not make a sinner, slacker, whiner, or non-team-player out of everyone that isn't willing to take it and strike or complain about their employer.



Many people don't appreciate having to search for another job, starting over every 5 years, worrying about supporting families and healthcare, or making ends meet for a few months while draining unemployment every time they get pissy about what their employer did. Then go on Nightline to talk about how you haven't been able to find a job as a Fiduciary Incontinence Contingency Plan Anal-ystic-Administrator for the past 8 months, and you're really starting to feel the effects at home.



Healthcare is an entitlement. Most people get a limited number of sick days. 3 on average. Some places require a doctors note for those sick days. Then you need to hear propaganda like "Hogwash, people don't get sick". Then people who can't afford the doctor come into work and spread it to everyone.



All of you that feel secure in your "Professional" jobs with "white collar" titles, what a corporate joke. Let's analyze some titles to see how comfortable you are with your job.



If you're any kind of "analyst", "coordinator", "administrator", "project whatever" face it, you're a secretary.



Managers - HAH, dime a dozen targets for blame. Not "Project Managers" which aren't really Managers, just secretaries (sorry Administrative Assistants).



Directors - HAH HAH I love when its "I'm Director of blah blah, and I report to Bob, who is the Director of conus Blah. Bob reports to Ted, who is the Director of All Blah. Meanwhile you're a business in one state with one office, and 10 employees.



Go ahead tell me there isn't anything wrong with corporate america. Tell me that employees shouldn't organize and be able to unite (uh, oh, that's a union). You know why, you're all too busy competing against each other, to ever really accomplish anything in your careers.



(here's where someone gets insulted and says "how dare you say that, I've done nothing but help my co-workers up after knocking them down. I've got 9 professional degrees in prosthoflammablametric engineering, and have held every position that I have earned myself by doing hard earning things to earn it hard. My company has cited me 4 times with a certificate for employee of the month, perfect attendance, and most likely to stop a bullet from a co-worker from hitting a boss. I have a house, a Trac, plus two other cars, and 3 dogs, ronnie, poo-poo, and sling-doo, along with 3 kids that have gone to royal saint aloicious academy and university. I work and live in suburbia where everything is green, and if it isn't we have a crew of day-laborers that will spray paint it green for us.") Whoop-dee-doo.



If you're offended by the suburban comments, don't be, your inner-city counterparts are "I work and live in the big city. I pay $2000 a month for a quaint 400 sq. ft. studio which has a full hot-plate in the kitchen. My cooler is in my shower when I'm not using it, I have a chihuahua named Paco, and a roach named Ray. I only sleep here, I work an 8am - 6pm job and then hit the bar from 6:30 until 11pm before passing out ree

 

[TrainTrac]

More observations from The Communist Manifesto:

The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state, i.e., of the proletariat organized as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.



Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionizing the mode of production.



These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.



Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.



1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. Abolition of private property rights, and increasing powers of eminent domain. See the Suprem Court's recent Kelo decision.



2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. Yup, we've got that!:angry:



3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. Can you say death/estate/inheritance tax?



4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. See item 1



5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.



6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. FCC, DOT, ever-growing government



7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.



8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Unions?



9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.



10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

Looks to me like we're well on our way to Communism...

 

[TrainTrac]

Healthcare is an entitlement.

How exactly is that an entitlement? Where in the Bill of Rights or anywhere else in the Constitution for that matter does it say that you have a right to health care. Why shouldn't it be something that each individual is responsible for on their own, like it used to be?

 

[Dre L]

Why not just get another job:



If you have a good job, and are getting screwed at it, you fight to keep that job and not get screwed.



A bus driver for the MTA can only work for a worse bus driving agency, or a better one that is almost an impossible job to get (usually retired MTA drivers with excellent records get those). Therefore, the MTA being better, you'll want to fight for the job, a fair contract, and the right to be treated with respect.



As for train conducters, well there aren't that many other subways in New York, I don't know how many competing mass transit systems there are in other cities.



Does anyone believe that striking is easy? You don't get paid, are out in the cold picketing, these guys are being fined 2 days pay for each day on strike, and possibly $25,000 per day per striking employee (this is against the individual, not the union), and face the possibility of losing your job. Who the hell wants to strike? I'm tired of hearing "oh, they just don't want to work."



Retirement age of 55 - you can't drive a bus or train if your health isn't up to par. As you get older your health has a greater chance of declining, vision, heart, etc... That's why they get retired early, same as with cops, firefighters, military. You just can't do certain jobs as you get older, same reason there is an age cap on being able to get some of these jobs.

 

[Dre L]

Quote:



Healthcare is an entitlement.





How exactly is that an entitlement? Where in the Bill of Rights or anywhere else in the Constitution for that matter does it say that you have a right to health care. Why shouldn't it be something that each individual is responsible for on their own, like it used to be?

Jesus Herbert Christ what in the hell does the constitution have to do with this?



Have you ever shopped your own health insurance? Pretty expensive huh?



Jobs rationalize salaries with "excellent benefits package", which is why consultants / contractors that do not get benefits make $100/hour whereas the full-time employee makes $30/hour. Will the company now pay the full-timer $100/hour with no benefits?



And if I'm responsible for my own health insurance, then I'm taking all the sick days I want and my boss better not expect a letter from my doctor, OR I will charge him for the visit to the doctor, and any copies of the letter.

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

It's not and ILLEGAL strike. It's a non documented strike. How about arresting some of the union leader and placing some hefty fines on them? They accepted a job which they knewthat it was illegal to strike. How about some accountability here? BTW does anyone know the salary and benefits of a Subway train engineer? I am very curious to discover how UNDER PAYED they are.



How about basing retirement salary on the scheduled ( not over time included) pay? That should reduce the retirement pay costs enough to pay for their medical. Give me a brake!! This obviously are not those referred to as "skilled" labor!!

 

[Jeff C]

They said on the news that subway drivers make $65k a year. Give it 10 more years before the subway drivers are replaced by automated systems, like the MARTA they have in Atlanta. No drivers, no unions, no striking. I say in 20-25 years they'll have automated busses.

 

[Johnny O]

I pay $2000 a month for a quaint 400 sq. ft. studio which has a full hot-plate in the kitchen. My cooler is in my shower when I'm not using it, I have a chihuahua named Paco, and a roach named Ray. I only sleep here, I work an 8am - 6pm job and then hit the bar from 6:30 until 11pm before passing out reeking of whiskey and smoke.

That's the hardest I've laughed all week. :lol::lol:

 

[Frank Marano]

yeah thats it just give more jobs away to computers......

 

[Jeff C]

Well computers don't b!tch and moan and ask for pay raises every year, or ask for health care. Although, now I can see some form of engineer's union that will strike against maintaining the computers if they don't get $300k a year with free health and dental, and 30 paid sick days and 60 paid vacation days.

 

[Dre L]

Shut up FMarano, or I will write a program to replace you.



Seriously, working with computers for a living, I've found 2 things:



They will never replace people, at least anytime in the near future. If anything, they require more people to run them, and the systems.



To err is human, to really f**k things up you need a computer. This is true, however you couldn't accomplish a great number of things as well.



Unions do not guarantee jobs, just a means for the workers to organize. If the Transportation Workers Union is looking forward, they will begin getting workers into engineering programs to have them ready to make the change from driver, to switch operator. The transportation system will shift to unmanned vehicles, replacing 1 specialized engineer driving, with 1 or 2 conductors to maintain order / security and pull an emergency brake if necessary. If you've ever ridden the NYC subways, it can be scary. I seem to be scarier, but I can see how it would be a bad idea for most people to catch a train at an unmanned station. MTA wanted to replace token booth clerks with automated vending machines. Yet that token booth clerk can supervise a station and call for help, can provide directions, etc... The riders objected with reason, and with reason the TWU supported the riders.



Now you have a bunch of weenie politicians hiding behind the law instead of just admitting they were wrong by belittling the TWU in the time leading up to the strike deadline.



The governer just cited how the teachers waited 2 years without a contract, how another group waited another number of years without walking out. contracts should not take years to be worked out. Just shows how the ones in charge take advantage of the workers and the taylor laws which stop them from striking.

 

[Dre L]

Well computers don't b!tch and moan and ask for pay raises every year, or ask for health care. Although, now I can see some form of engineer's union that will strike against maintaining the computers if they don't get $300k a year with free health and dental, and 30 paid sick days and 60 paid vacation days.

Wow JeffC, you have a rude awakening coming once you graduate.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

JeffC, as a computer engineer I would *LOVE* such a union as you describe. Would bring a whole new meaning to "Revenge of the Nerds!"



TJR

 

[Frank Marano]

Well computers don't b!tch and moan and ask for pay raises every year, or ask for health care.

You must be the union steward at IBM or Microsoft? lol:lol: