The big three are in the tank

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I think it's more of a bailout for the UAW than it is for the automakers.

Unfortunately the gummint looks at the automakers as a jobs program and not as auto producers. Then they put up all sorts of standards forcing them to build cars that people don't want and wonder why they're losing money.

Now the govt wants a stake in the automakers.

When the govt builds cars, you get the Trabant. :rolleyes:



Heard a commercial on the radio for a local Ford dealer, they are offering 50 shares of Ford stock free with every new vehicle purchase.

Nowhere do they say that that's only worth about $100. :lol:
 
Buzzworth,

That's actually the problem.



The Big Three paid too much attention to the "in the moment" type auto and not enough to everywhere else. They didn't hedge their bet.



Markets and consumers fluctuate, but there are always a few underlying "blue chips" that are safer bets. In the auto industry, those blue chips are inexpensive, fuel efficient, well-built autos.



The Japanese brands have been making inexpensive, fuel efficient, well-built autos since they were founded. This is their bread and butter. The market has come and gone away from them, but they continue to build what they know what to build. Because of this, they have enough money to invest in higher-risk autos, the SUVs, trucks, and sports cars of the world.



Meanwhile, the Big Three have nearly always been very reactive to the market, trying to score the quick dollar and not preparing for the future. Back when Henry Ford first put a V8 in a regular consumer car, it didn't take long for the Big Three (plus a few more, then) to realize that is what is selling, so now everything has a V8 in it. The fuel efficient, well-built, well-built cars like the Model T were abandoned.



This trend eventually evolved into the jet/space styling of the '50s, and suddenly every car had wings, vents, baubles, and do-dads. Continuing into the muscle car era, but by the early '60s, the domestics were creating small, fuel-efficient, well-built cars, just that there wasn't much emphasis put in them, and nearly all of them could be had with a V8 (which means the cars were re/engineered to be able to accept a V8, thus making sacrifices at being a true 'economy' car). We all know what happens next, the insurance/emissions/fuel crisis.



What were the Japanese brands doing this whole time? Making small, fuel-efficient, well-built, inexpensive autos. The market fell out from the land yachts and into the hands of the Japanese. The Domestics respond, poorly by many regards, and are suddenly left playing catch-up. This trend continues into the early '90s when the SUV and truck market exploded. So what do the Domestics do? Invest heavily into the new land yachts, and all but abandon the small car market. The money that could've, nay, should've, been used to improve small cars was instead used on land yachts. No cookie for guessing what happens next....the market collapses on the SUV and trucks, and the Big Three are left with not enough quality products to bolster them.



What have the Japanese been doing this whole time? Building fuel-efficient, well-built, inexpensive autos. The market has once again returned to them.



While building a product that is in high demand NOW is a good way to make a quick buck, when that market turns, you have better have a sure-fire bullet in the barrel or risk a quick death. By building a sure-fire product all the time, the Japanese brands have the money to sit back, watch the trends, then enter into the market with a product that could make them even more cash...without bailing on the type of car that got them there.



The solution is simple, the Big Three need to make, and continue to make, autos that will always sell, fuel-efficient, well-built, inexpensive cars, but with an eye to the future. They need to be less concerned about making the quick buck; stop following the trend with both feet. Don't jump out of an airplane unless you know your parachute is packed properly, otherwise you'll crash and not be able to get back up. The Japanese have great parachutes, while the Big Three don't.



You can't blame the consumer, you can't blame the government, the blame, if you want to call it that, lies with each automaker themselves.
 
Tiger, all great info in your post.

problem is the big three have not enough time to re-tool and get back in the marketplace.

They are toast.
 
Let's look at the most successful cars. The Model T, VW Bug, VW Rabbit and Toyota Corolla. What do they all have in common? They are just basic transportation, but reliable and economical. The last time we had a gas crisis, those Rabbits were everywhere.



The US automakers need to get back to basics. They need to build something cheap and reliable. They may not make much per unit, but when you sell millions of them those little profits on each one add up.



Uh, you mean cars like the Ford Pinto, Chevrolet Vega, Dodge Omni, etc.? :lol:
 
The one thing I havent heard discussed here is. Awhile back primetime ran an article with the documentation. That the japanese autos built here do have an unfair tax advantage. In some cases toyota USA was way behind in thier income taxes. Something to the effect of not paying them for several years. The IRS wasnt going after them either.

Also showed government documentation that japanese USA auto companies were lieing about the amount of profit reinvested here. Something like 80% being sent back to japan, loopholed from the IRS. IMO, the US auto makers have built some very good cars for the $$. They built what the people wnted. The japanese were ahead in the '60's with mpg. Thats what there people wanted and needed. They were tin cans though. It is not till this last decade they are more sized to the average American. The repair parts are still expensive including the common wear parts. The japanese auto makers were also very good at AD propaganda. Sold itself to whole different generation than mine. Now blame that on the unions.

I see the majority of the members here that blame unions. Live in closed shop states. I dont. Open shop states, unions dont have God almighty power. You need to look into unions outside of your bubble.
 
Tiger.......very well stated.



Back in the 60's when the VW Beetle was all the rage for economy, the US makers retaliated with products such as the Corvair, Falcon, and Darts. Too late.

When there is a slowdown in the economy, they can't retool fast enough and get caught behind the curve........again.

They never seem to learn that there will always be a market for an economical standardized vehicle that is sensible.



ss
 
Tim your such a dips$tt, the gov will NOT bail out the automakers

I do not own a toyota or a honda.

Am on this site because I drive a trac, have for 5 years.:blink:

Members like you that can tell a member he is a FN idiot, and get away with it, tottaly degrads this site JMO
 
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Bailing out the big three is just a huge waste of tax dollars. They need to feel the pain and change some of their wasteful business practices. I worked for several years for a Tier I auto supplier,a nd I have seen with my own eyes the amount of waste and graft that goes on between suppliers to the Tier I folks. The amount of "fluff money" to buy favors and retain customers is outrageous. It must really be bad a the higher levels.
 
Tim, we have have no website police, your allowed to use your profanity at will.

The rules of this site no longer exsist.

People like you can call members, FN idiots, assholes, and just get away with it. sad but true.
 
TIM,

I have no website power. But Im telling you. Your the profane hothead since you came on here. Change your ways or leave the website. It is evident for the 2 months youve been here you know nothing about the folks you have spewed at. I cant speak for the rest. I dont want someone like you on this site.
 
TIM,

Youve been here 2months. As I said, I have been here 4 yrs I know alot about these guys. You dont. You can tell me to shutup or cuss me call me names also if you want. I wont go back to 6th grade with you. Nor will you push my buttons with those tatics. Many of us have had disagreements without what you are doing in this thread.

If you respond to what I just said. I will not have another response for you. Good or bad..:D

 
Ladies, why don't you take it to personal e-mails and then you can tell each other what you really think...
 
Hi, my name is Gerry and I own a Ford Focus AND a Toyota 4Runner. I am having withdrawal symptoms from the ST I owned for 8 years and my Dr thinks this might help........



:)
 

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