Tragedy at Virginia Tech

[Johnny O]

I carry a 45 or a 380 when I feel it necessary, but on a school campus there is no way in hell students should have guns.

And again, I think that is why a lot of shootings occur at schools or the workplace where people are unlikely to be armed and shoot back.

Me, I'm carrying concealed when I serve communion in church.



Someplace there's a story about the sheep, the wolf, and the sheepdog.



found it:

 

[Josh Langel]

It is not a bright idea to have a college campus with students who carry guns.



Sorry, but if a kid feels that threatened at school, he or she should probably not be there.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Johnny O is right on. Let teachers and administrators carry weapons if they'd like. Heck- even train them and pay them extra duty if they want to do it.



We have all these schools, malls, government buildings, etc. that have signs advertising that they are full of people without weapons. That is like an invitation for violent offenders to walk in and start shooting with a guarantee that they won't be shot back at.

 

[Adam Cat]

Guns at a college campus is not a good mix. Lets get drunk and get into dumb pointless testosterone pissing matches with guns. Its not even funny how many arguments/fights I have seen at parties. Imagine the outcome of those fights with guns involved.

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

Campus Police are basically just security guards. They typically are just there to keep the kids from parking on the lawn and having loud parties.

Actually, jfire is right, I heard on one of the cable news shows that the VA Tech police are as well trained as any city police force.

Shame on the thousands of Katrina victims who abused the help they were given.

fmarano, If that is the case we here on the West Coast have not heard of Katrina victims who abused the help they were given. But, that would not surprise me because a lot of welfare people (not all) think that the world owes them, and they do nothing to get themselves off the welfare rolls and be productive citizens.

 

[Josh Langel]

Johnny O is right on. Let teachers and administrators carry weapons if they'd like. Heck- even train them and pay them extra duty if they want to do it.

I think he was talking about <b>everybody</b> carrying guns, including students.



With this kind of thinking, it's like saying instead of enforcing the airport security, we should allow everyone to carry weapons onto a plane...



In both cases, I don't see how giving guns to everyone will better the security of both parties.

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

The message / lesson I see here is that this incident shows us just how vulnerable we all are to an attack be it terrorist or other. Like the song from the 60's said "The times they are a change'n".

 

[Don Pertz]

I've had a carry permit for 36 years and I still believe in the philosiphythat "It's better to have one and never need it , than to need one and not have it".

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Frankly, I think there is something to be said about more guns in the hands of well meaning citizens INCREASING civility and overall public safety.



If only 1 out of 50 students or profs on VT campus was packing a concealed weapon yesterday I suspect the outcome would have been VERY different, considering this guy shot over 60 and no doubt came in contact and made flee several times that many more.



TJR

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Imagine the shooting that would take place over girlfriend/ boyfriend breakups???

Imagine how often this happens without CCW permits.... everyday.



I am an FFL holder (CRFFLer03) and I know the laws that pertain to me. I do not have a CCW YET as I don't have the $$$ to go through it all (about $300).



Everyone needs to keep a few things in mind:



1) This was an act of a person, not an act of an inanimate object or two (the gun, the ammo and the mags).



2) This was a crime perpetrated with the use of firearms that were COMPLETELY legal to own at any time, even under the ridiculous AWB94 laws.



2A) Sidenote, your honor.... the AWB94 did NOTHING to stem crime... federal statistics say so.



3) The size of magazine made no difference here. The only time a large cap mag is a benefit is when someone is shooting back at you. This guy was using standard mags (probably somewhere between 7 and 15 shots per). I've already seen the uneducated blaming high-cap mags.... no dice.



4) Let's ban criminals, not guns.



5) This guy broke AT LEAST 12 laws of local, state and federal nature (and I could probably find another 20 when I get home tonight):

- Murder, 1st degree - 31 counts

- Attempted Murder - 17 counts

- Assault with a "deadly" weapon - 100+ counts

- Making Terroristic threats - 100+ counts

- Carrying concealed without a permit - misdemeanor

- Alien in possession

- Leaving the scene of a crime

- Discharge of a firearm in city limits

- Discharge of a firearm in state building

- Carrying a firearm in a No Carry designated area

- Suicide (against the law in most states... ha)

- Throw in a good "hate crime" or two (he was Chinese and several of the victims were Jewish....)



No new laws are obviously needed. It's not like he sat there and said "You know, I could be charged with murder and 11 other crimes.... that's fine with me. But wait, there's the law about not shooting during daylight hours... that does it. I can't go through with it! I better go turn myself in...."



25,000 students on campus. Anoter 5,000 or so staff/faculty. If only 1% had a CCW, that's 30 people. HOWEVER!! In 2006, Viginia had 5.5 million people aged 21 or older (legal age to own a handgun). There were 137,034 CCW permits issued. That's roughly 2.5% of the populus. If that same % was used on campus, there would be ~750 legally armed individuals, and based on that, there was a good chance that (1) victim would have been armed based on statistics:



-30,000 people on campus

-31 is ~.1% of the population

-2.5% is armed = 750

- 750:30,000 --> 1 armed person for every 40 unarmed

- 31/40 = 75% someone was armed.



If you add in that he would have come across around 1500 students in a 30,000 person population, that means that at least 37.5 of those people would have been armed and capable of stopping this nut job.



But it still goes back to the fact that this guy was out of his gourd and would have done the same thing if he had a baseball bat or an AK or a 9mm that he had.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

An ARMED society is a POLITE society.

 

[Johnny O]

I don't understand how this could happen, because the VT student handbook specifically says that firearms are not allowed on campus.

 

[Gavin Allan]

I don't understand how this could happen, because the VT student handbook specifically says that firearms are not allowed on campus.

HA HA HA!!!



A good one to shove up the gun control advocates... :lol:

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

I don't understand how this could happen, because the VT student handbook specifically says that firearms are not allowed on campus.

Guess the Gun Free Zone signs were missed as well...



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In Honor of the Victims, I present:

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[Bill V]

JohnnyO, Gavin, RShek, etc.--



The bodies were still warm, and already you were feeling the need to try to turn this tragedy into a political argument, and even making lame smart-aleck jokes. Nice.



Show a little class for once in your life, and let people (both those directly affected, and those who are nonetheless emotionally impacted) have a time of mourning, without you turning their situation into your standard pandering political rhetoric. The time for such discussions will come, but now, this soon after the event, is not it.

 

[Johnny O]

Just calling 'em as I see 'em and don't want it to happen again.

Earlier this year the Virginia General Assembly failed to act on House Bill 1572. The citizens of Virginia are permitted to carry concealed weapons if they get a proper permit from the state government --- unless you are on a college campus. This bill would have allowed college students and employees to carry handguns on campus --- with appropriate permits, of course. It died in subcommittee. After the bill was thrown out up steps Larry Hincker, a spokesman for Virginia Tech, the site of today's carnage, who says "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

 

[user 64117]

OK. So media claims security could have prevented the second shooting. my guess is that if security alerted everyone and gunman got wind of it, he would hide, possible in another building. here is where the second set of shootings occur.



I love when media seeks to blame people. WHY cant the blame the gunman. You cant protect everything. And only after the fact you can say that they should have dont this or that.



I just think with all the money that is made a these schools, they need to have metal detectors.



A swipe card....hahahaha...good security. Guess a gunman will attempt to use his ATM and if he/she doesn't get in...Leave



My thoughts and prayers are with all students that were involved and all those thereafter. I just found out one is from my town here in MA.



GodSpeed

 

[Gavin Allan]

re: Tragedy at Virginia Tech by Bill V,4/17/2007 13:21 CT



JohnnyO, Gavin, RShek, etc.--



The bodies were still warm, and already you were feeling the need to try to turn this tragedy into a political argument, and even making lame smart-aleck jokes. Nice.



Show a little class for once in your life, and let people (both those directly affected, and those who are nonetheless emotionally impacted) have a time of mourning, without you turning their situation into your standard pandering political rhetoric. The time for such discussions will come, but now, this soon after the event, is not it.

Yes, this is a tragedy, and I pray that the families and friends of the victims find peace and comfort.



I am sorry for offending you, Bill V. However, I don't see why there has to be a prescribed time before anyone can discuss this incident. My understanding of the mourning process is that some folks work through the process in minutes, while some don't work through it in years. Your suggestion of waiting for the mourning process does not make sense.



Additionally, using your logic, as soon as the first victim was discovered, no one at the site should have thought about the shootings or worked to save themselves until a they'd had a proper "time of mourning". Cops should not have been called in, and no discussions about what to do next should have ocurred.



I don't see what the fuss was about. I didn't read anything insulting or disrespectful to the victims. I didn't see anything that a normal person would find offensive.



What is offensive to me is that many folks have not yet realized that the world is a much different place than it was years ago, and we are going to have to change the way we live and secure our lives and property. There are plenty of folks out there (besides terrorists) who either want to kill us, or who would have no regrets for killing us. Of course the terrorists are a huge problem, but even more troubling are all the borderline personality disordered folks out there who don't think a thing about killing or hurting others. Those are the real scary folks, and there isn't a whole lot you can do to treat the borderline personality person. Our society with all the unwed mothers, neglected children, failure to properly nurture and care for infants, etc. is currently producing BUNCHES of these borderline personality disordered folks. The only "cure" is to be armed and ready to protect yourself if and/or when you are a victim of a borderline personality disordered person.



Read the link below for more information:

 

[Bill V]

Additionally, using your logic, as soon as the first victim was discovered, no one at the site should have thought about the shootings or worked to save themselves until a they'd had a proper "time of mourning". Cops should not have been called in, and no discussions about what to do next should have ocurred.

That has to be one of the most brainless comments I've ever heard.



How in the world can you equate the response of proper emergency services and evasive techniques, used to deal with the immediate needs of a situation like this, with your immediate use of such a situation as a soapbox for your political drivel?



Your actions in this thread have been absolutely pathetic and classless. It's time for you to grow up a bit.

 

[Josh Langel]

Guns in school = bad idea



I love my guns, but a college campus is no place for kids with guns.



I have a CCW permit, but it doesn't mean I have to carry my guns everywhere I go.. Also, though this tragedy could have been prevented if other had guns, I can't help but wonder what some college kids would do with a gun, especially when they go out drinking after every football and basketball game.. talk about scary..