What ever happen to victoms rights?
Well if you can't shoot and intruder next best thing...
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They were squashed by the criminals rights!!!
Tom
Mike Wilson
Well-Known Member
I have a pair of firearms I affectionately refer to as "Arnold", as in Arnold Scwhartsenagger,
(or whatever the spelling!), and "Pee Wee", as in Pee Wee Herman!
They are a 1968 model S&W 3904-4 9 mm Satin Nickle Plated Semi-Auto,
with a full clip of Bull-Nosed Hollow -Point Eagle Talons (the bullets, not the Chrysler car!),
and a 1992 model Jennings/Browing Arms .22 Semi-Auto that fires exclusively .22 Hi-Mag
Long Range/High Power Solid Copper Hollow Points (small yet deadly!).
As a cousin of mine said (to police, by the way, when he took out a low-life intruder in
his home 10 years ago)..."When I run home, I ain't runnin' no farther!" Yes, he was a
Southern Boy, as most boys in my family are... But you get the point...
The Cops agreed!
Don't even ask me about my Remington A-33, .223 Sniper Series. I won't tell you about it!!!
That one is for my long shots, should I ever have to take one! (Where is Osama, by the way?)
(Got the Scope, Tripod, Sandbag, and everything for it! But Don't ask me about it!!!!)
(or whatever the spelling!), and "Pee Wee", as in Pee Wee Herman!
They are a 1968 model S&W 3904-4 9 mm Satin Nickle Plated Semi-Auto,
with a full clip of Bull-Nosed Hollow -Point Eagle Talons (the bullets, not the Chrysler car!),
and a 1992 model Jennings/Browing Arms .22 Semi-Auto that fires exclusively .22 Hi-Mag
Long Range/High Power Solid Copper Hollow Points (small yet deadly!).
As a cousin of mine said (to police, by the way, when he took out a low-life intruder in
his home 10 years ago)..."When I run home, I ain't runnin' no farther!" Yes, he was a
Southern Boy, as most boys in my family are... But you get the point...
The Cops agreed!
Don't even ask me about my Remington A-33, .223 Sniper Series. I won't tell you about it!!!
That one is for my long shots, should I ever have to take one! (Where is Osama, by the way?)
(Got the Scope, Tripod, Sandbag, and everything for it! But Don't ask me about it!!!!)
Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
(7) firearms in my house, plus (1) parts kit, soon to be a rifle....
You step into my house uninvited... first you will hear the sound of a shotgun getting pumped. IF that won't work, then a 1911-style handgun being racked.
Meet Mr. 20Ga, his older and wiser brother Mr. Garand, his Russian Uncle Mr. Mosin, Turkish Uncle Mr. Mauser, Swiss Uncle Mr. Schmidt-Ruben, his wild Romanian brother know affectionatly as Kalash, and of couse his love child Hi-Point .40S&W....
If I find you here tonight, the police will find you here in the morning.
You step into my house uninvited... first you will hear the sound of a shotgun getting pumped. IF that won't work, then a 1911-style handgun being racked.
Meet Mr. 20Ga, his older and wiser brother Mr. Garand, his Russian Uncle Mr. Mosin, Turkish Uncle Mr. Mauser, Swiss Uncle Mr. Schmidt-Ruben, his wild Romanian brother know affectionatly as Kalash, and of couse his love child Hi-Point .40S&W....
If I find you here tonight, the police will find you here in the morning.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
A serious question to you guys with your "shoot first" attitude regarding home invaders...What if it isn't an invader?
What if its some person in an altered mental state, who thinks your home is theirs?
That does happen you know.
Personally I don't have a gun in my house for protection, because:
a. I feel the likelihood of a home invasion is very, very unlikely
b. Given a., it is more likely that I might be compelled to use the gun in a well-meaning but later realized unfortunate circumstance
c. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if b. happened.
TJR
What if its some person in an altered mental state, who thinks your home is theirs?
That does happen you know.
Personally I don't have a gun in my house for protection, because:
a. I feel the likelihood of a home invasion is very, very unlikely
b. Given a., it is more likely that I might be compelled to use the gun in a well-meaning but later realized unfortunate circumstance
c. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if b. happened.
TJR
Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
Most people (myself included) who "claim" that if you enter my house, that will be the last thing you do, are a bit exageratted. Most gun owners that I know are much more responcible than that. The sound of a shell being racked is enough to get anyone's attention. The way I loo at it is like this:
Intruder comes in the door. We (my wife or I) would have just a moment to react. My guns are not let loaded, however my hadgun has a loaded mag on another shelf that an adult (not a chile) could reach at the same time as the gun itself. The shotgun is unloaded under the bed. The intruder would be verbally warned that we are armed and that they need to cease and desist immedately. The cops are called as well. With flashlight and handgun in hand, one of us would investigate where this person may be located. As long as they are not in direct threat to my daughter or my wife or myself, an eye is kept on them. If they make a move towards either bedroom where we are located, additional actions may be taken.
I live in a small house. I have neighbors close by. If I just start shooting I take a risk that I do not want to take. I would have to be dead-sure (no pun intended) of what my target was, and more importantly what was behind them. I am a good shot, but have never been confronted before and don't want to be cocky and say 100% that I would hit the intruder and the intruder alone. With the handgun and shotgun, I have no doubt that the intruder would have to think twice about progressing further. He doesn't have to know that atleast one of the firearms is not loaded.
I hop to never have to play this scenario out, but I know I am prepared if I do need to. My family comes first. I will go to jail if I need to if I know that my family remained safe. I would not be a good man/father/husband if I let something happen to my family because I was too afraid of going to jail. You attack me or my family, consequences be damned, they are MY FAMILY and it is my job to lay my life on the line to protect them and their honor.
Intruder comes in the door. We (my wife or I) would have just a moment to react. My guns are not let loaded, however my hadgun has a loaded mag on another shelf that an adult (not a chile) could reach at the same time as the gun itself. The shotgun is unloaded under the bed. The intruder would be verbally warned that we are armed and that they need to cease and desist immedately. The cops are called as well. With flashlight and handgun in hand, one of us would investigate where this person may be located. As long as they are not in direct threat to my daughter or my wife or myself, an eye is kept on them. If they make a move towards either bedroom where we are located, additional actions may be taken.
I live in a small house. I have neighbors close by. If I just start shooting I take a risk that I do not want to take. I would have to be dead-sure (no pun intended) of what my target was, and more importantly what was behind them. I am a good shot, but have never been confronted before and don't want to be cocky and say 100% that I would hit the intruder and the intruder alone. With the handgun and shotgun, I have no doubt that the intruder would have to think twice about progressing further. He doesn't have to know that atleast one of the firearms is not loaded.
I hop to never have to play this scenario out, but I know I am prepared if I do need to. My family comes first. I will go to jail if I need to if I know that my family remained safe. I would not be a good man/father/husband if I let something happen to my family because I was too afraid of going to jail. You attack me or my family, consequences be damned, they are MY FAMILY and it is my job to lay my life on the line to protect them and their honor.
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
I also read about the first one. In my article it said that the intruder was 5'8"/180 and the nurse was 5'6"/260. :lol:
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
R Shek, are home invasions and burglaries with occupants inside the house common in Arkansas? I know that's not necessarily pertinent to your need to protect your family. I am just wondering.
Thanks for your past reply.
TJR
Thanks for your past reply.
TJR
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
In PA we have the so-called "Make My Day Law". Not many home invasions because gun ownership is common, and the bad guys know this. Basically as long as an intruder is not shot in the back, it's okay to kill them.
Although my town is not as safe as it used to be, I don't worry much because it's common knowlege that I have a large dog and a sign from the burglar alarm company in the front yard. That said, if someone breaks in when I'm home, I'll holler downstairs "Take whatever you want but I'm armed and if you come up the stairs I will shoot you." I would too.
Tip: Use hollow points if you have a handgun, they splatter and are not as likely to go through a wall and into your neighbor's house. Although for defending your house in the dark of night a shotgun is best because your aim is not as critical.
Although my town is not as safe as it used to be, I don't worry much because it's common knowlege that I have a large dog and a sign from the burglar alarm company in the front yard. That said, if someone breaks in when I'm home, I'll holler downstairs "Take whatever you want but I'm armed and if you come up the stairs I will shoot you." I would too.
Tip: Use hollow points if you have a handgun, they splatter and are not as likely to go through a wall and into your neighbor's house. Although for defending your house in the dark of night a shotgun is best because your aim is not as critical.
Mark S 3
Active Member
While I'm not questioning anybodys desire to protect their own, has this theory ever been proven? I'm just thinking about my neck of the woods. Definitely not much gun ownership around here yet you hardly ever hear about home invasions.
Personally, I've never worried about my house getting invaded while I was home. I'd be more worried about it being broken into while I was away on holidays for three weeks and the house was left unattended.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
JohnnyO, guess they don't call Western PA "Pennsyltucky" for nothing!
Go ahead, label me a bigot!
Go ahead, label me a bigot!
TomT
Well-Known Member
I admit a home invasion is not likely and I really don't worry about it but neither is a fire, yet I have smoke detectors and a fire extinguisher just in case.
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
Yes, just prowl around Google a little and you can find plenty of articles. Generally, in states where gun ownership is common and/or CCW is legal, personal crime is lower and property crime is higher (stolen cars don't shoot back). In places where gun ownership is not common, there tends to be a higher rate of assault, mugging, etc. because the criminals rightly assume that most people are not legally armed. The criminals themselves don't especially care if the gun they have is illegal, if they did, they wouldn't likely be criminals in the first place.
Yeah, but then we pick on West Virginia because they're worse than we are. :lol:
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...and I bet you have insurance on your house too.
Tom
Mike Wilson
Well-Known Member
TJR...
Alas, you always seem to be the "Fly in the Pudding"!
R Shek,
Sounds like either you have had some training, or just a good dose of that all-too-rare
common sense! I had what they referred to as F.I.S.T. training classes up in Michigan
in the late '80s, taught by a retired Michigan State Police Officer. It stands for
"Firearms Instruction and Self-(Defense) Training".
The scenarios you stated, R', are very similiar to ones given in our class.
All of my firearms are well secured, trigger locks for all, in a child-proof location,
with proper maintenance and cleaning/inspections, and regularly test fired at my local
range to be sure of their reliability/accuracy.
Again, as my cousin stated to police following his encounter, "When I run home,
I ain't runnin' no farther"!!!
Oh, and by the way, my stepson is a Maury County(TN) Sheriff's Deputy, on the S.W.A.T.
Team, and he regularly shares with me some of their latest training techniques and
tactics! How cool is that!!!
He's the one they nicknamed T-N-T! (Thick a'n'd Tall)!
31 years old, 6 foot, 5 1/2 inches tall, 245 lbs,and built like a "Brick Shipyard"!
Alas, you always seem to be the "Fly in the Pudding"!
R Shek,
Sounds like either you have had some training, or just a good dose of that all-too-rare
common sense! I had what they referred to as F.I.S.T. training classes up in Michigan
in the late '80s, taught by a retired Michigan State Police Officer. It stands for
"Firearms Instruction and Self-(Defense) Training".
The scenarios you stated, R', are very similiar to ones given in our class.
All of my firearms are well secured, trigger locks for all, in a child-proof location,
with proper maintenance and cleaning/inspections, and regularly test fired at my local
range to be sure of their reliability/accuracy.
Again, as my cousin stated to police following his encounter, "When I run home,
I ain't runnin' no farther"!!!
Oh, and by the way, my stepson is a Maury County(TN) Sheriff's Deputy, on the S.W.A.T.
Team, and he regularly shares with me some of their latest training techniques and
tactics! How cool is that!!!
He's the one they nicknamed T-N-T! (Thick a'n'd Tall)!
31 years old, 6 foot, 5 1/2 inches tall, 245 lbs,and built like a "Brick Shipyard"!
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Ttracnblack, "Fly in the pudding"...nice!
I wonder why my questions make some uncomfortable? They are just questions so that I can get answers, and with the answers hopefully better understand differing attitudes.
TJR
I wonder why my questions make some uncomfortable? They are just questions so that I can get answers, and with the answers hopefully better understand differing attitudes.
TJR
Mike Wilson
Well-Known Member
TJR...
Your Q's do not make me uncomfortable. Again, as I posted last night, (about the R.C.A.,
and such). I (we) are just trying to figure out why some on this site can be so insightful
and helpful, on one post, yet, (seemingly) Anti-American, on the very next post?!?!
By the way, how is that impending layoff that I read on an earlier post, last night,
playing out for you? No nightmares of the "I Told You So's"?
I hope not! If so, we can share with you ways to get through it.
Your Q's do not make me uncomfortable. Again, as I posted last night, (about the R.C.A.,
and such). I (we) are just trying to figure out why some on this site can be so insightful
and helpful, on one post, yet, (seemingly) Anti-American, on the very next post?!?!
By the way, how is that impending layoff that I read on an earlier post, last night,
playing out for you? No nightmares of the "I Told You So's"?
I hope not! If so, we can share with you ways to get through it.
Rich Stern
Well-Known Member
TJR, there are practical issues, such as accidents, as you mentioned, and there are philosophical issues.
Do you believe that people have a right to defend themselves and their property from criminal attack? My view is, people who cede this right are too willing to cede other rights as well. If we aren't responsible for our own well-being, then we usually expect the government to be responsible for it. That's not a healthy attitude for a society, because government has proven to be a poor custodian of most things ceded to it by the people.
Gun ownership is a choice and carries high responsibilities. Safety. Training. Security. If someone defending their home with a gun shoots mistakenly, the consequences, mental and legal, belong solely to them. That's the price of living in a free society. You can't not be held responsible for your actions.
Likelihood? Well, I've never needed my car insurance policy (thankfully). Would it be wise for me to cancel it?
Do you believe that people have a right to defend themselves and their property from criminal attack? My view is, people who cede this right are too willing to cede other rights as well. If we aren't responsible for our own well-being, then we usually expect the government to be responsible for it. That's not a healthy attitude for a society, because government has proven to be a poor custodian of most things ceded to it by the people.
Gun ownership is a choice and carries high responsibilities. Safety. Training. Security. If someone defending their home with a gun shoots mistakenly, the consequences, mental and legal, belong solely to them. That's the price of living in a free society. You can't not be held responsible for your actions.
Likelihood? Well, I've never needed my car insurance policy (thankfully). Would it be wise for me to cancel it?
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Trac,
Nope, the lay-off situation has nothing to do with "I Told You So"...it's all about a small company in a small high-tech industry (Video on Demand) that has matured. A "land grab" occurred and several small vendors like ours sold as much product as possible to the few giant customers there were and now, pending some set of "next generation" products, the marketplace is stagnant and all the vendors are fighting for crumbs. Our company has already laid off, and is ripe for acquisition. It's actually a pretty common story in my industry. There are plently of "gold rushes" and "land grabs" and those attribute to lay offs.
Rich, I never meant to imply that people don't have a right to defend themselves or their property. And, I never said I wouldn't want to protect my property. Nor am I trying to ban guns or limit their availability. I grew up in a house with guns, had guns as a young man, and actually enjoy shooting as a sport. My line of questions were more to probe the reality vs the perception of the true need for guns as a means of home protection. I ask because I am interested as it is a something I struggle with (e.g. "should I get a gun?"). But, as it stands, I don't feel compelled to get one, thus the struggle. I get a little put off by the statistics, though I know they are put out by those pushing an agenda. One such stat is that a gun in the home is much more likely to be used for domestic violence or some accidental shooting in the home than actually used in some protection incident (yes, I know...that's where safety and responsibility come in). I don't know the specific stat, but I can't help but believe it is true, because it "feels true"...to me anyway.
IMHO, though I have spent a lot of time on here, I guess people don't know me at all. I really don't have an agenda to push, and if I ask a set of questions its because I am genuinely interested in the answers and using those answers to help me with things in my life...and not to catch people in word games and say "Gotcha!", all to push some agenda.
TJR
Nope, the lay-off situation has nothing to do with "I Told You So"...it's all about a small company in a small high-tech industry (Video on Demand) that has matured. A "land grab" occurred and several small vendors like ours sold as much product as possible to the few giant customers there were and now, pending some set of "next generation" products, the marketplace is stagnant and all the vendors are fighting for crumbs. Our company has already laid off, and is ripe for acquisition. It's actually a pretty common story in my industry. There are plently of "gold rushes" and "land grabs" and those attribute to lay offs.
Rich, I never meant to imply that people don't have a right to defend themselves or their property. And, I never said I wouldn't want to protect my property. Nor am I trying to ban guns or limit their availability. I grew up in a house with guns, had guns as a young man, and actually enjoy shooting as a sport. My line of questions were more to probe the reality vs the perception of the true need for guns as a means of home protection. I ask because I am interested as it is a something I struggle with (e.g. "should I get a gun?"). But, as it stands, I don't feel compelled to get one, thus the struggle. I get a little put off by the statistics, though I know they are put out by those pushing an agenda. One such stat is that a gun in the home is much more likely to be used for domestic violence or some accidental shooting in the home than actually used in some protection incident (yes, I know...that's where safety and responsibility come in). I don't know the specific stat, but I can't help but believe it is true, because it "feels true"...to me anyway.
IMHO, though I have spent a lot of time on here, I guess people don't know me at all. I really don't have an agenda to push, and if I ask a set of questions its because I am genuinely interested in the answers and using those answers to help me with things in my life...and not to catch people in word games and say "Gotcha!", all to push some agenda.
TJR
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Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
You could also say that if you drive a car, you are more than likely going to get into a wreck than somebody who walks to work. If there are no guns in the house, an accidental shooting would be awefully odd. If you never drive or own a vehicle, how do you get into a crash?
As far as breakins in Arkansas.... we are no immune. My neighbors have had a lot of stuff stolen from thier carport over the last two years. Motion lights and security cameras do nothing but help the crook to see what they were stealing. The camera? It's now gone with the rest of the stolen tools and parts. I live in a neighborhood where atleast 1/2 of the homes are armed. Break-ins are rare, but have happened once or twice (the first home in my neighborhood was built 5 years ago).
Places like Little Rock, North Little Rock, West Memphis (all within a 1-1/2 hour drive of my house) and others have a high crime rate (as high as Memphis, East St Louis and Watts per capita).
I am looking at getting some of the Horniday TAPS rounds or similar frangibles in .40S&W for self defence. They are good for close range and break-up with contact with building material such as drywall. What shrapnel may penetrate one side of the wall should be stopped by the other side. Problem is that they can make a bit of a mess with a gut shot. Personally, a 20Ga shell with half powder load and rock salt is a nice touch. Not overly deadly, zero over-penetration, and the bad guy will hopefully think twice about what they are doing next time.
The problem I see with fireing any gun in the house is that the concussion could be enough to break several windows, especially in a small house and the windows are all closed.
