911 remembered !!

[Ryan Schaecher]

If you want to to say that the puppets we've put in place is the practice that needs to change, then I'm with ya in that one. However, if it's our support of Isreal or the support of revolutionaries that wish to install a Democracy, then we'll have to agree to disagree. Our support of the Northern Alliance in Afganistan and the Kurds in Iraq are examples (or at least until we stopped supoorting them.... mistake).



Our foreign policy should be simple... you kill one of our citizens... we kill 10 of yours. You bomb a pizza parlor, we bomb a Mosque. You hijack a plane, we "hijack" a city. You blow up a building, we carpet bomb you.



Anybody who says that what we've done in Iraq/Afganistan or what Isreal was doing in Lebanon/Gaza/Syria was/is excessive, they need to think about what these people did with boxcutters. Excessive? Nope. Hardly even impressive.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

R Shek, I think we should support any government that strives to establish lasting democracy in their country, one in which it's people have free elections and all its people, men and women have the same rights, freedoms and opportunities.



Did we do that in Iraq when we supported Saddam? NOPE!



As for support of Israel...that's a tough one because though I think we should support Israel I am at odds with what the really means. They don't really need our support, persay, if anything our support of Israel of late has had us trying to tell Israel what they can and can't do to protect themselves. Israel exists because of UN decisions and mandates. Support for Israel, where needed, should be a UN responsibility, with us aiding through the UN.



TJR

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Did we do that in Iraq when we supported Saddam? NOPE!

The enemy of our enemy (USSR) is our friend.... failure. Agreed.



I disgree on the UN/Isreal thing. I believe that we need to be behind Isreal 100% and the UN be damned (I could go on and on about the UN anyway).



Yes, Isreal could annhiliate anybody in the region without our help. But, whatever they do do, we will be linked to it anyway in the eyes of the world.



This is also a religious debate as well that does not belong in this thread as well.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

R Shek, yes, I think we should support Israel (I just question how), and yes, it is a religious debate.



For those that don't think it's a religious debate, just listen to the hate speak from other countries, what with terms like: "Jew York City", and "United States of Jewmerica"...it's as if others view the US as a Jewish country, run by Jews, etc.



It's the same kind of small, narrow thinking I see on this board sometime when people start talking about "big evil corporations", or our "corporate run govt". It's just not the truth, though I can understand the perception. Perception only defines reality for those unable or unwilling to look deeper and to question their perceptions.



Everyone wants someone to blame when they get the shorter end of the stick than someone else. Evil corps, a corrupt govt, the Jews...they are all just good scapegoats for people that can't admit to themselves that their lot in life is caused largely by their own actions (or inactions).



TJR

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

they are all just good scapegoats for people that can't admit to themselves that their lot in life is caused largely by their own actions (or inactions).

May I borrow this? That is truely an excellent statement. Once a person admits to themselves that they are responcible for their own success, it won't matter if they are Left Wing, Right Wing, Union, Non-Union, etc. It's not the government or the union or your company that should be providing for you, it's up to you. However, why should it be a one-way street? If you get a paycheck, the company you work for has a right to demand that you produce X amount of product (be it parts, designs, reports, sales, etc). If you don't they can decide that your pay is too high for what you produce and reduce your pay (or completely remove your pay).



It's up to you to get out of the way of a Hurricane. It's up to you to decide if a job is right for you or what to do if someone else decides your job is not right for you. Quit whining about it and move on. Get a new skill, better yourself. Move forward.

 

[TomT]

This all goes back to what I've always believed: Nations don't make people. People make nations.

There IS no hope for Iraq and I'm beginning to wonder about the USA's future.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Feel free to use it whenever you want, R Shek.



BTW, that quote also pretty much defines a core belief of mine, and that is that we live in a country where anything is possible for everyone, if you are just willing to take the initiative and responsibility, and not wait for someone else to be your sponsor, savior, protector, provider.



That's why I tend to NOT agree with the philosophies and the ideals that weaken the individual, or that cheapen them. Unions, for example (not trying to draw first blood Caymen as this isn’t anything new I am about to say) in my opinion cheapen the individual. The very essence of a union is that you are stronger united than separate; that they will provide for you things you can't get on your own; and that they protect you from being victimizes. Those ideals TOTALLY portray me, the individual as helpless, without voice, and without power, and I simply cannot, do not and will not accept that. I won't be trivialized in that way.



The same is true with the attitude that companies are evil and our govt is against us. It's just victim mentality to which I don't subscribe.



If my govt is corrupt...it's my fault because I elected them or didn’t get the “other guy” elected. If corporations are evil...again, it's my fault because corporations exist because of consumers. Bitch about WalMart but still shop there...my fault. Bitch about high gas prices yet drive an ST...my fault.



TJR