Kalama group poll

[Rhonda Lewis]

This is getting ridiculous........

 

[GccST]

It really is getting ridiculous. Yes, I may have said that I didnt think she was that good looking, but I certainly never called her ugly. And Lauren is right about the family web-site thing. Its the same people that yell at other members for saying "ass" or "damn" that are ogling this woman in a bikini, which is certainly a lot less family friendly than swearing every now and then. Maybe you guys should think about what youre saying.

 

[Gavin Allan]

I miss both Kalama and Bill Barber!

 

[Tom Schindler]

GccST,



I take it that you don't take a family to a pool or the beach. They wear swimsuits and bikini's there, but instead you take them to bars where they swear?



I do not have a problem with swearing. When you stub your toe, saying ouch does not help with the pain as much as yelling S___.





Tom



edit: added a question mark to make the sentence sound right.

 

[GccST]

Tom, yes a pool or beach has women in bikinis, but this Kalama girl is bent over in a thong across her truck. It is totally different than the beach, because she is doing this on purpose. I dont have a problem with the swearing or with her posing, I just thought it was slightly hypocritical that these people yell at the curse words, but welcome this ladys feeble attempt at soft core porn. And no, I dont take family to bars. I dont think I ever said anything about that...

 

[Tom Schindler]

What would you consider more offensive?



A calendar of women in bikini's or men in thongs, or are you more offended by someone using a swear word?



Personally, if I were to walk into a shop that has men wearing thongs on a calendar it would not bother me. Walking into the same place with people using swear words is very offensive. There is a place for everything, I seen nothing offensive about any of Kalama's photos she has posted on this website.



When someone drops the F-Bomb here, that is offensive.



I should have put a question mark on that sentence. I did edit that. I did not mean to say you took your family to bars. I never would think for one minute that you would expose your children to that type of lifesyle. I am truly sorry for that.





Tom

 

[Dre L]

I miss dano.

 

[Bill V]

GccST, Lauren, AdamCKach, et al--



The "soft core porn", as you call it, isn't on this site. So please quit acting like she posted it here. Whereas when people complain on this site about profanity, it's because it happened HERE.

Kalama should have thought ahead at how her posts may affect some people. I guess she didn't. I would rather not look at her posts or even see posts from her if that is her purpose-self serving "oh, look at me." If she wants to post she is more than welcome to discuss het truck and/or be helpful when someone has a question. I do not in any way need to see her a** in a picture w/ an ST in the background.

Do a search and look at any of the recent posts Kalama has made. NOT ones where others have posted ABOUT her, mind you, but ones she has actually posted herself, ON THIS SITE. She's offered help to other members in finding a body shop in Hawaii, and on Hawaiian vacation advice, she posted a message asking for help in locating copies of some of her old photos (without actually posting any here!), she posted a message letting people know that she put up a website with photos in part because of the requests she's received (the post included a photo of her in a MyST t-shirt, fully clothed--no other photos), and she's left a note expressing appreciation for some of the people who have defended her on this site (unnecessarily, in her eyes). THAT'S IT. And for this, some people feel the need to respond like she put hard-core porn on the front page of this website. Come on, people--the worst image to appear in ANY of those threads wasn't from her, but from Fer, of an ST wearing a thong!



If you want to politely question the exhibitionist tendancies she has shown on HER OWN site, fine--that's your perogative. If you want to somehow say that this has anything at all to do with the women's rights movement, feel free--regardless of how ridiculous and paradoxical that comment might be. But on this site, Kalama's done nothing remotely impolite, rude, or (to the best I can tell) factually inaccurate. She deserves the same from you, instead of making false statements about posts you incorrectly claim she's made. I'll grant that a few of you have done this--posting your opinion politely--but many of you have had comments filled with nothing but lies and venom.

 

[Fer Echegaray]

Amen to that Bill,

I could remove the thong from my ST, but I guess I would get slapped...

:lol:

 

[Robert Poole]

Bill V.



You said everything that I wanted to say, you da man



Everybody have a good one



Bob

 

[Tom Schindler]

Bill,



Very well said.





Tom

 

[GccST]

I never once said that she posted her soft core porn on this site, but it is on here, in her member library. And I dont know about other members, but I never said anything about her personality, or about posts that she made. Regardless, this is getting out of hand. The fact is that it is a website about trucks, so this discussion never should have happened to begin with.

 

[TrainTrac]

So we're not allowed to discuss anything but trucks on this site?:huh:



I thought that was what the off-topic category was for...:huh:

 

[A K]

The "soft core porn", as you call it, isn't on this site. So please quit acting like she posted it here. Whereas when people complain on this site about profanity, it's because it happened HERE.

Bill V,



I thank you for reading my posts. Wait, you didn't. A no point was the material referred to soft core porn or the like.



I'll just italicize a post from earlier:



The reality of the situation, as I see it, is a bunch of married men (save some singles) staring at some woman on the internet. I feel, as a committed man who is deeply in love with my girl [edit: still the same, Ape], that this is not only disrespectful to your other, but it continues the objectification of women that the women's rights movement has fought to resolve for the past fifty years. The photos, which present Kalama as no more than an object, serve only as to be presentations as a woman as an object. That, in of itself Ape, is my problem. I work and to to school with women who could wipe the floor with most men. I respect their abilities more than I would ever respect a figure in a bikini. As I said before - cleavage ain't gonna save the world. I thank God that Sandra Day O'Connor used her black robe to made a difference in the lives of men.



I encourage you to pay closer attention to the argument.

If you want to politely question the exhibitionist tendancies she has shown on HER OWN site, fine--that's your perogative. If you want to somehow say that this has anything at all to do with the women's rights movement, feel free--regardless of how ridiculous and paradoxical that comment might be. But on this site, Kalama's done nothing remotely impolite, rude, or (to the best I can tell) factually inaccurate. She deserves the same from you, instead of making false statements about posts you incorrectly claim she's made. I'll grant that a few of you have done this--posting your opinion politely--but many of you have had comments filled with nothing but lies and venom.

Rediculous and paradoxical? Get real - the reason the objectification of women continues is because of issues like these. When a woman presents herself to a male as nothing more than an object, he sees her as such. Pick up any study on the presentation of women versus their role in society. When men enter my office, do you know how often they have asked "Oh, I want to speak to the man." It sounds absolutely absurd, but it happens.



We claimed false statements made about our posts? Again, if you can show where this claim is true, I'll give it weight. At no point was this an issue in my discussion.



In reality, I am at the point where I don't really care what becomes of this. In this issue, those who want the photos up, for whatever reason, will use any and all justification they can think of. I have maintained my original stance, and not once have been proven wrong. In reality, the issue has been avoided. Give me a coherent, thoughtful reason how a bunch of guys, some married, staring at some woman, scantily clad, in adult poses (per GccST's reply) isn't the objectification of women. Are you looking at the surrounding scenery? Respecting her ability to perform gymnastic poses? Get real.



However, at the simplest level, it's an argument over what we deem appropriate and respectful to women and their equal role in society. Some have no problem with it. Others, like me, do. We're obviously not going to reach any middle ground with this. To continue this waste of bandwidth is pointless.



Kalama - for the sake of those fighting tooth and nail for your photos, put them back up. I don't have to look, and likewise, I don't have to care. You apparently are well-liked and appreciated here, and as is so familiar in politics, let the majority rule.

 

[Bill V]

Adam--



I did read your posts. And those of others. Clearly you didn't read mine. Specifically, where I addressed it to "GccST, Lauren, AdamCKach, et al--". No, you didn't use the words "soft core porn"--but one of the people that the post was addressed to DID, so my statement is still completely valid. If you want to get all uptight over my using "you" instead of "one of you", fine, be that way--it doesn't change my point whatsoever.



And yes, it is paradoxical--You claim to be such a proponent of women's rights, but you appear to be opposed to Kalama's right to post these photos on her own site. The reality seems to be that you're a proponent only of the rights of women who think the same way as you do.



And did you really mean to say what you just said? That men enter YOUR office, speak to YOU, and then say "Oh, I want to speak to a MAN?" To make such a wisecrack about some other guy would be downright rude, misogynistic, and sophomoric--but to repeat such a remark being made about YOURSELF sounds just weird.... (I'm just kidding--yes, I know what you intended the post to say.)



For the record, in my opinion, whether Kalama puts the photos back up or not is completely up to her--the photos (or lack thereof) are not what I object to. What I object to is the way some people on this site have treated and responded to someone who has been nothing but friendly and polite to everyone she's interacted with here.



--Bill

 

[Chuck Watson]

This is so stupid. Some of you guys on this site make a debate about everything. I dont even like reading post on here anymore. Someone always has something smart to say. If your going to be rude and start a problem just keep your opinion to yourself.

 

[Dre L]

balls.

 

[David B]

Bill to Adam:

You claim to be such a proponent of women's rights, but you appear to be opposed to Kalama's right to post these photos on her own site. The reality seems to be that you're a proponent only of the rights of women who think the same way as you do.

That would appear to be true and very well said (again) Bill.



Adam said:

When men enter my office, do you know how often they have asked "Oh, I want to speak to the man." It sounds absolutely absurd, but it happens.

Actually Adam, in your case I think I can see how this could happen.



As for the "objectification of women", oh for pete's sake....get real! I get so tired of this feeble, emasculated, pc garbage. The woman is the one with the power and control here, not the men that are "oogling" over her. No offense meant but you seem more like a solution looking for a problem.

 

[A K]

Actually Adam, in your case I think I can see how this could happen.

Cute. Let's not talk credentials. I try to maintain humility. One thing I've learned - never confuse wit for intelligence. Moreover, I think Ape said it best: "I am sure you have a backbone of steel on the internet."

As for the "objectification of women", oh for pete's sake....get real! I get so tired of this feeble, emasculated, pc garbage. The woman is the one with the power and control here, not the men that are "oogling" over her. No offense meant but you seem more like a solution looking for a problem.

I encourage you to research studies relating men's perceptions of women vis-a-vis sexual violence and personal attitudes. This "feeble, emasculated, pc garbage" has shown more than strong correllations. I can think of one issue in the field of media presentation and perceptions. I cannot locate the study currently, but it has been published in scholarly journals.



Additionally, I encourage you to research case studies of convicted sexual offenders and their psychological states. Women are viewed as objects, period. I've worked in the county D.A.'s office as well as spent much time reading legal case studies. Your opinion, while held tightly, is contrary to fact. Offenders view their victims not as human beings but as objects that are means to an end, which is pleasure.



It's so easy as a man to sit back and consider this a baseless cause of some women's empowerment movement. I did for a long time. However, knowledge is indeed power. When you learn the relationship between many of these variables, when you read the personal accounts of individuals on the giving and receiving end of such sad episodes, you realize that ignorance is not the solution.



I'll conclude with one small story. I once had the opportunity to sit and talk with a girl who was forcibly raped. She wasn't the first attempted victim of the male. To see her cry as she recounted the event, to see the self-hate and self-blame even though she was a complete victim, and to see the scar that she has to live with for the rest of her life, I knew I wouldn't ever view the crime the same.



The relationship between simple objectification leading to further acts is established. Sure, we're all good folks on this web site. However, out there somewhere is some guy getting his jollies to (not in re: Kalama) lewd photographs. The more he views them, the more the woman isn't a woman but is an object. And, God forbid though, at some point this man is in jail. In comes in the social psychologist, and behold, we learn what we already knew.



Honestly, I don't have any will in my body to continue this discussion any more. I've said it before - if Kalama wants to post, then let her post. If she wishes to share photos, then let her share photos. If folks want to indulge, then make it like a kid in a candy store. In the process of this too-long argument, I no doubt must have insulted her. For that I apologize to her. To those in the process of this that I have personally jabbed, I apologize likewise. If you disagree with my opinion, then disagree with my opinion. If you dislike me after all of this, then dislike me. I haven't gotten to where I am in life without thick skin and a strong resolve - and I thank the girl that I date for that (yes, I'll avoid "my" - no need to nitpick). I only ask is that some of you take the time to read a little into what I have written. Believe me - it's out there, and it's sad. I'll let my signature conclude.

 

[David B]

Fair enough Adam as we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I am sure your points may have validity and merit in cases like the one you put forth above but I think you are reading way too much into this one. BTW, thanks for considering me witty! I certainly do not dislike you by any measure. I actually appreciate the debate and it felt good to get that anti-pc rant out of my system. It's been dying to get out.