Missing Boy in the N.C. Mountains Found Alive.

[Kevin Palmer]

TJR, I have no idea if they do or do not. The question was how you would feel if....



My post is in response to the Post that Bear removed.

But I will leave mine as it is not offensive and certainly is not meant to be if it was or is being taken that way.



On a side note, I would think that some adult should be in the tent simply so someone has a close personal eye on a bunch of 10 year olds out in the woods in a bunch of tents.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Coastie, I hope you don't mind your thread being used in a BSA gay stance way.



Anyway, I asked because I was wondering if different troops did things differently.



I assumed it was a BSA-wide convention that adults and kids slept in seperate tents/facilities, because it was always that way in camping since I was a scout 30+ years ago.



There's no need to keep a personal eye on a bunch of 10 year olds in a tent...not by being in the tent, that is. A bunch of 10 year old boys make enough noise to be heard yards away when up to no good.



TJR

 

[Fred]

I always thought it was when you couldn't hear them that you should start wondering what they're doing?

 

[Tom Schindler]

Let not forget, I am straight as an arrow and find the act of homosexuality gross. Then again, I am not gay and I do not find a male body attractive.



I am married too.



I do see a gay paerson as someone that lives their life within the law of the land. As a US Citizan, we have three rights. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.



Who am I to say that someone is not allowed to be gay? Do they have any fewer rights than I do?





Tom

 

[2]

On a side note, I would think that some adult should be in the tent simply so someone has a close personal eye on a bunch of 10 year olds out in the woods in a bunch of tents.

I am pretty sure that adults were NOT allowed to sleep in the tents with kids when I was in boy scouts as a RULE. Kids were in their own tents and the adults were right beside in theirs.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

That's what I thought and always observed too, Olaf.



TJR

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Like I said, I have no clue as to the rule of adults in tents. But it makes sense in both directions. If they are in there the kids are safe. As long as the adult him/her self is not the issue. If they are not in the tent then the children are safe from all adults, as long as some adult is awake and paying attention.



So it comes with mixed emotions I guess.....

 

[Jim Reeves]

I deleted it as soon as I posted it, because I decided I shouldn't take the thread in that direction. Seeing as how Coastiejoe did read it and replied, I asked if you knew there was an openly homosexual leader in the Scout troop, would you allow your 10 year old son to attend a camping trip? I don't know if the leaders are allowed to sleep in the same tent, cabin, etc. as the kids, but I do know that some things that aren't allowed happen anyway. No, I don't think that all those who profess to be homosexual men are pedophiles, but I do know that they profess to be attracted sexually to males. I would not allow my daughter to go camping with a male group leader unless there were a female adult along. I wouldn't allow my daughter to go camping with a professed homosexual female leader. I know that doesn't mean it couldn't happen, I'm talking about someone who openly professes to be homosexual. I gave up a long time ago on the "Perfect World" line of thinking. I certainly don't hate people because they are homosexual. My personal morals, which by the way are NOT defined by society, won't allow me to think of homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle. I don't get to decide what is acceptable to anyone else, but I do get to decide what is acceptable when it comes to affecting my family and my child. This is MY opinion, and I certainly don't expect anyone to agree. In 2000, the Supreme Court ruled that the Boy Scouts is a private organization and have every right to set its own membership and leadership standards. That certainly seems to place them smack dab within the law of the land. Anyway, I'm glad the boy was found and is gonna be alright. That's the important thing.

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

IMHO...



I'm sorry, this kid has to be the worst Boy Scout! He earned nothing!



If it's true he was homesick and wanted to get to the road and hitch hike home as stated in the AP article then his family should foot the bill for the rescue efforts.



The kid has no common sense of what is right and wrong.

 

[Fred]

You're right SST. He caused a lot of trouble to suit his own little wants.

 

[Tom Schindler]

No, I don't think that all those who profess to be homosexual men are pedophiles, but I do know that they profess to be attracted sexually to males.

Here is a question. When you see a little pretty girl around 10 to 12 years old, are you attracted to them? Do you find yourself thinking about "doing things with them"?





Tom

 

[Jenn D]

IMHO...



I'm sorry, this kid has to be the worst Boy Scout! He earned nothing!



If it's true he was homesick and wanted to get to the road and hitch hike home as stated in the AP article then his family should foot the bill for the rescue efforts.



The kid has no common sense of what is right and wrong.

DITTO



After reading the new reports about the whole crazy ordeal, I cannot help but think this kid should not be getting praise. On the contrary, he should get a swift kick to his rear. Probably the parents too, but you can't blame them for wanting to get him out in a social environment and getting him involved in the BSA (which IMO is one of the BEST organizations for young boys). You cannot help but wonder if he hid from searchers because he thought he'd get to the road soon and be home. He even stated that he was going to hitchike home. WOW (what have mom and dad taught him......nothing.....) I even read that he demanded to be flown out on a helicopter. This is a fantasy to this kid. He needs to learn how his actions affected so many people.



Lastly, his father was quoted as saying that the boy is very worried about the school work he's missed. He also said that he hopes his son's teacher would be lenient given the circumstances. Um....no.



I am glad he is okay, but he is no hero. The opinion I have is that he's a spoiled kid who didn't get his way.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Here's one for you...if the #1 reasons for barring homosexuals from being in leaders in Boy Scouts is because you think they may end up sleeping with the young boys in tents, then you have to also bar women leaders.



BTW, the question above is to the individuals that have stated the BSA stance according to that rationale.



I agree that as a private organization the BSA can set its own rules of leadership. They ultimately view openly homosexual leaders as not living up to the moral code they want from their leaders. That is their rationale. You can agree or disagree with it, but they are within their rights to set that qualification.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BigBear said:

My personal morals, which by the way are NOT defined by society, won't allow me to think of homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle.

They may not be solely defined by societym, but they are heavily influced by society and not yours alone, personally; unless you were born in a test tube and raised yourself as a hermit.



All of our opinions are shaped by our environment, those we are raised by, those we interact with.



TJR

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Tom....

Good question. I am sure I know where your going with this....



I walk around airports all day long and see it happen all the time. You can literally follows the heads of those watching.



I see a young lady at a distance and think. Wow, she is in good shape... etc etc etc.



Then she gets close enough to see her face and you can tell she is like 13 or so.



And then I think. Holy cow, what was I doing....



With as fast that females mature in todays world it can be a very scary place.

 

[Jim Reeves]

I don't really see the point of your question, Tom, but no, I am not attracted to children, are you? I think I stated that all homosexuals are not pediphiles. There may be as many or more heterosexuals that stalk children as homosexuals. I don't normally look that kind of thing up. I do know that children are very impressionable, and that if those that are put before them in a leadership role condone an activity, they are more apt to consider it acceptable. I find pedophilia as aberrant as homosexuality.



TJR

I think that the number one reason that the Boy Scouts don't want homosexuals as leaders is that the Boy Scouts do not condone that life style, and don't think that those who are in the position of leadership should display or convey it as as being acceptable.



Of course our opinions are somewhat influenced by our environment, but that's not what you said in your earlier post, you said "Defined", and my morals are not defined by society. My personal morals are defined by my faith, and influenced firstly by my family, secondly by those people that I know and have love and respect for, and lastly by society. I would have to say that as the years go by, society does more to strengthen my belief in my own moral system than it does to change my way of thinking.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BigBearCarolina,



Thanks for responding.



A few notes. You say:

I think that the number one reason that the Boy Scouts don't want homosexuals as leaders is that the Boy Scouts do not condone that life style...

I agree with that. I even stated as such above when saying:



"I agree that as a private organization the BSA can set its own rules of leadership. They ultimately view openly homosexual leaders as not living up to the moral code they want from their leaders"



You also said:

...and don't think that those who are in the position of leadership should display or convey it as as being acceptable.

If what you are saying is that a leader of the BSA shouldn't condone or convey acceptable the homosexual lifestyle, then I tend to disagree. For example, if a straight, male BSA leader were to attend and support a rally for gay marriage, then by your statement, they are no longer leadership material. I think I disagree with you that, if that is what you are saying.



Also, BigBear, if you go back to where I used the word "DEFINED", I said:



"Morality and social norms are defined by society and change over time."



That's still true.



Morality can have an individual side (ie. "your morality", vs. "my morality") and then, yes, society only plays a part. I wasn't speaking of individual morality, but more in terms of societal norms and mores.



For example, it was moral and within societal norms to assume that women are inferior to men, treat them as such, and give them lesser rights in many countries for centuries (including our own). That was within the social norms and the morality of the time, and it took individual morality to sway society.



Heck, there are even things described in the Old Testament as commonplace such as incest, subjugation of women, slavery, and yet the same book described eating certain kinds of food as immoral all while claiming no morality issue with the aforementioned. Why, we can only assume because at the time, they were not deemed by society as immoral.



TJR

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

Well BigBear I hope you don't own a Poodle!



http://www.stuffed.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=257&Itemid=29

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Also, BigBear when you say:

I would have to say that as the years go by, society does more to strengthen my belief in my own moral system than it does to change my way of thinking.

That's why I said there are easy ways and hard ways to influence change. Terms like "homophobe" are the hard way. That's why I used the term "digging in heals".



Listen, I think the gay agenda is pretty sad sometimes. But I also think that there are gay people out there, that but other than their sexual orientation, are living lives morally superior to many straight folks. I don't think about them when I hear the term "homosexual lifestyle". When I hear that term, used, its typically by those that I assume have issue with the openly gay, swishy, over the top, flamer type of gays and the gay men that dress like freaks or have anonymous sex in restrooms, etc. That is immoral, and just in poor taste.



But ultimately, we can't fight changes in the societal norms. They change. We can dig in our heals, but ultimately the change happens.



You knew this analogy was coming, so HERE IT IS...



...just like 50 years ago when a bunch of white guys doned white hoods and dug in their heals to try to retain what they were tought by their parents and their faith, and to rally against the worst of the element which they were against.



TJR

 

[Jim Reeves]

SST, real men don't own poodles!



TJR

We'll just have to agree on some things and disagree on others. I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. The one thing I am confused about is this:

"I agree that as a private organization the BSA can set its own rules of leadership."

I agree.

If what you are saying is that a leader of the BSA shouldn't condone or convey acceptable the homosexual lifestyle, then I tend to disagree. For example, if a straight, male BSA leader were to attend and support a rally for gay marriage, then by your statement, they are no longer leadership material. I think I disagree with you that, if that is what you are saying.

i don't agree and think this contradicts what you said earlier. Either the BSA should be able to set its standard of leadership or it shouldn't. In my opinion. Gotta get some work done. Thanks again.