Missing Boy in the N.C. Mountains Found Alive.

[Mark Grumpy]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone....

How do I convey the casting here?? :lol:



Just kidding. Only popping in to say that I cannot believe I read all this. Nodded a few times and shook my head a few times. Congrats to all for your civility.



Oh yeah - kick the kid in the tuckas. Send Daddy the bill. But I guess as he has ADHD all is forgiven. pppfffttttt.



grump

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yup, there are plenty of versions of the Bible. I'm glad we came to agreement that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but ultimately written by man, as man held the pen. That alone should allow us to be comfortable in questioning its validity.



Kind of like "The Book of Mormon"...watch if you dare:

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

I feel that I / we probably differ from you guys (BigBear & TJR) in that I / we do not take a literal interpretation of the Bible, even through it is inspired by God. We look at what the metaphisical lesson being taught.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Rodger, that wouldn't be differing from me. I too do not take the Bible as the literal word of God. If it were, then God has a very poor way of communicating, is often mistaken and contradicts himself.



TJR

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

Sorry Tom, my error in interpretation. Are you planning on attending the '08 National meet?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Rodger, I hadn't planned one way or the other on the national meet. But I might be at the Spring NNJ meet since it is only an hour or so away.



TJR

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

We aren't doing a cross country trip this year. We are planning to go to New Mexico to visit my sister, some time in August.

 

[Jake Levin]

- kick the kid in the tuckas. Send Daddy the bill. But I guess as he has ADHD all is forgiven. pppfffttttt.



grump

I think that's something we can all agree on!



Tom,



Glad to hear you might be making it to the NNJ meet, finally get to meet the man behind the posts! :lol:



Jake

 

[Gavin Allan]

The Bible is the true, inerrent word of God. We are just too stupid to understand it.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Right, Gavin, that is one belief, but not all Christians believe that. Furthermore, many that don't believe in inerrancy are often labeled "Non-Christians" by those that do. Clearly that's not what God wanted.



For more on inerrancy and infallibility go to:

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Actually, assuming by "federal amendment" you're referring to an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, no, that's not enough. You need to have 75% of all states--which would be 38. The 28 you cite, even if they were all wiliing to ratify a constitutional amendment (and just because it's not currently legal there doesn't mean they'd all be willing to go to the step of ratifying a constitutional amendment), is 10 short

.



I was referring more to the 4:1, which is 75%. I'm not 100% in favor of a federal amendment. I would much rather it be left upto the states, much the same as abortion and several other issues where the people of the state would be better off decinding that some judge or "elected" politician....

 

[Bill V]

I was referring more to the 4:1, which is 75%.

Understood--but now the mathemetician in me is kicking in, so I need to clarify--4:1 is 80%. (If you meant that 4:1 exceeds the 75% threshold, then I withdraw the comment.)

 

[Tom Schindler]

I got an even better idea. Strip the government of the power of marriage, and only allow them to institute a Civil Union between two humans. Allow churches to marry people.



That way, since marriage was instituted by God, churches can keep marriage "clean". The gay community can continue to live as law abiding citizans.



It is a win-win for everybody.



Unfortunatly, those "loving", Christian Holy Rollers will not like the idea.





Tom

 

[Jim Reeves]

I feel that I / we probably differ from you guys (BigBear & TJR) in that I / we do not take a literal interpretation of the Bible, even through it is inspired by God. We look at what the metaphisical lesson being taught.

Just to clarify my position, I believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. By that i mean that it is complete for it's intended use. i believe that if there is anything God intends for me to know, through reading and study and prayer, God will reveal it to me through His Word. Rodger used the word "literal", and I do not think that everything in the Bible should be taken literally. I do not think, for instance, that their was actually a man who had a plank in his eye and didn't notice it while trying to remove a splinter from his brother's eye.



Someone else said it this way, and I don't disagree:

The Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is the record of God's revelation of Himself to humanity. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for it's author, salvation for it's end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for it's matter. It reveals the principles by which God judges us; and therefore is, and will remain until the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. The criterion by which the Bible is to be interpreted is Jesus.

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

This has certainly been a most diverse and interesting thread.



BigBear, Thank you for clarifying your position. I will say that I have not studied the Bible as well as those that have posted in this thread. When you say that the Bible in the inerrant Word of God: Are you referring to the Old Testament or the New Testament? Either way I feel that the Bible is devinely inspired, and question the inerrant Word of God simply because it was written by humans who had to interpret what God was telling them or if they were writing exactly what God was telling them doesn't that make them clareaudient, as in hearing voices; which in todays society would probably be interpreted as being a little off. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the Bible is completely in error, but you really have to dig deep to find the spiritual laws in it that govern the universe. I hope that makes some sense.

The criterion by which the Bible is to be interpreted is Jesus.

If that is the case then you will understand that we all have the same power within us as Jesus the Christ because he said (not an exact quote) that all these things you can do and greater. We just have to learn how to develope them through prayer and meditation.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Questions for Biblical innerrantists (literally playing the devil's advocate here):





How do you explain the apparent inconsistencies, absurdities and errors of fact in the Bible?



1) If you claim that there are no apparent flaws in the Bible, and thus nothing to explain, why do I see flaws?



- If your answer involves a naturalistic mental defect of some kind, why am I more like to have this defect than you?



- If your answer involves a spiritual defect of some kind, how does this apply to Islamic fundamentalists, who in many cases have studied the Qu'ran more than you, and who are willing to die for their faith?







2) If you claim that the apparent flaws are the result of misrepresentations and passages taken out of context, why is it so easy for me to distort the Word of the Almighty and Omniscient God? Moreover, how do you know that your religious leaders did not similarly distort the Bible for their own purposes?







3) If you claim that a certain version of the Bible is linguistically flawed due to archaic language and/or poor translation, why would God allow this to happen? Moreover, if God allows flaws in some versions of the Bible, why assume he corrected any version?







4) If you claim that it requires lots of study and research to properly understand the Bible, why would God make his word so hard to understand? Moreover, are you claiming that most of the Christians who attend church regularly, who have not even read the Bible cover to cover as I have, do not properly understand the Bible?







5) If you claim that it requires divine revelation to properly understand the Bible, why not just rely on revelation as a source of information, instead of a book? Moreover, why should we accept divine revelations that point to the Bible, while rejecting revelations that point to the countless other holy texts?







More such questions at:

 

[Fred]

There has been lots of interesting reading in this thread. As some have already mentioned, it's REALLY been nice that it didn't become a name calling (for the most part) shouting match.



There will always be differences in opinions about the Bible, especially since there are so many "versions", but there is one main, MAIN thing that overshadows all, and that is if or if not one has accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. When it comes down to the day you die, that's all that will matter, nothing else. Whether you've been a good boy or good girl, a smart person or someone lacking, it won't matter if you haven't gotten your soul right with the LORD.



This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.



John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



And it is as simple as this:



Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.



Romans 10:10 (KJV) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



I hope this helps.



(Flame suit on)

 

[TomT]

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

 

[Jim Reeves]

I'm not a Bible scholar either. I use the term " inerrant" to say I believe that if the Bible is the Word of God (which I believe), then there is nothing in the Bible that God did not intend to be there. I don't claim to understand why everything that is in the Bible was included. I certainly can tell you that there is much i don't understand, or at least fully understand. But I believe one day I will. God didn't "accidentally" let something in that he wanted out. God didn't "accidentally" leave something out that he meant to include. God would not inspire man to write the Bible, and leave it up to them to interpret what He said. I know in Philippians it says "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.". The only way I can have the same powers as Christ is if Christ lives in me through the Holy Spirit. I certainly don't believe I have the same power in me as Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I can think of nothing more blasphemous.

How do you explain the apparent inconsistencies, absurdities and errors of fact in the Bible?

I believe they are only apparent, or they are meant to be there for some reason. I would never suggest that I know as much as God, and if they don't make sense to me, they must be wrong. If I need to know, I will know. If I need to understand, i will understand.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Tom T,



The Sabbath Day working rule was abolished by the coming of Jesus Christ.





Tom