Missing Boy in the N.C. Mountains Found Alive.

[Josh Langel]

BigBearCarolina:

In the eyes of God, yes. This is not the time nor place to get into anyone's theology, but I am convinced that to God, sin is sin.

Actually, there are mortal sin and venial sin.



I am Catholic, thus I believe there are two types of sin.



Quote via another site explaining the two types

"A venial sin doesn't make us fall from the state of grace. It's always good to say an Act of Contrition daily to clear of venial sins."



"Mortal sins have the ability of taking away the life of grace in the soul and lead us away from God. Examples of a mortal sin is premarital sex, murder, extreme anger, hate, divorce, adultery, and so on."

I don't believe Homosexuality falls into any of those two.



BTW, I go to school and I am very good friends with a couple homosexual men. Growing up I was pretty much wierded out by anyone who was gay, but once you get passed the labeling and stereotypes, they are just as human as anyone else.



I also don't feel as if I have to participate in manly activities in order to present myself as a straight man. People are very often way tooooo critical of their sexual identity. I am an artistic person who's not affraid to express himself, so there have been times were people I know have thought I am gay. But, I find it fun to make people feel uncomforable and quiver because of what they think... ha ha... I love people.:lol:



Now, anyone want to watch some football and drink some beer?

 

[TomT]

We obviously have very different ideas of what being a Christian means

That in a nutshell is the whole problem of Christianity. Every Christian group has there own perspective on Christianity and their own interpretation of the bible. That's probably why I no longer consider myself a Christian. It's to damn confusing. Doesn't mean I don't respect others opinions but that's all they are to me. None based on fact.

 

[TomT]

We obviously have very different ideas of what being a Christian means

That in a nutshell is the whole problem of Christianity. Every Christian group has there own perspective on Christianity and their own interpretation of the bible. That's probably why I no longer consider myself a Christian. It's to damn confusing. Doesn't mean I don't respect others opinions but that's all they are to me. None based on fact.

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

I agree with R&G. Amazing how threads get turned into something else. Not that it is a bad thing. If it wasn't for threads like this, I'd actually have to do some work, while I'm at work.



As a non-practicing Christian, and as someone who, since the age of 9, was raised by a father who is a minister, there isn't a religion out there that isn't "flawed". Thus the reason I decided to just live my life the best I can. Am I perfect? By no means. Would I have a problem with an "openly gay" BSA leader? No, as long as he shows he has moral character. The BSA definately helped me in my life, and I look forward to hopefully having my son enjoy the organization when he is old enough.



As for the original topic of the post, the boy in question should not be alowed to get away with the anguish he caused and the time wasted looking for his selfish a**. I am glad he is ok though. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

[Jim Reeves]

I thought I had said my piece, but I have another question, directed to Mud:



I am not Catholic, and don't pretend to know a whole lot about the Catholic faith. But I'm not sure I understand something you said:

"Mortal sins have the ability of taking away the life of grace in the soul and lead us away from God. Examples of a mortal sin is premarital sex, murder, extreme anger, hate, divorce, adultery, and so on."



I don't believe Homosexuality falls into any of those two.

Unless someone is married, when they have sex it is considered premarital. Unless I can find somewhere in the Bible (and I know our Bibles are different) that it says God approves of homosexual marriage, and the homosexuals in question are married, (please don't misunderstand, I don't think homosexuals can be married), then how does this not apply?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BigBear said:

I consider the Bible as being the inspired word of God. Written physically of course by men, but controlled by God for content. Maybe one of us is right, but I'm pretty sure we both aren't.

Sounds like you are saying more what I have been saying and thinking all along. If we agree that the Bible is the inspired word of God (and not each and every word the literal word of God) and written by man, then the Bible can and no doubt does include flaws and inaccuracies. Admiting that to ourselves as Christians opens a whole new world. Surprisingly it is a world in which we can, with intelligence and a good foundation of faith discuss the Bible and its scripture and attempt to define what the truths mean for us, today. Because ultimately, the Bible is a collection of truths, and stories, about people and places in time, and they must be viewed through the modern day lens and applied to man's world, today.



TJR

 

[Jim Reeves]

I guess I would best describe my belief as this, TJR:



I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. Written by men under the guidence of God. I don't believe anything was left out that God wanted in, and I don't believe that anything is in that God wanted left out. And yes, I know that the Catholic Bible is different from the Bible I have, as well as is the Jewish Bible. Through prayer and study and faith, I believe that God has led me to use the Bible I do to lead my life the way He would want. That's the best I can do.

 

[Josh Langel]

BigBearCarolina,

Unless someone is married, when they have sex it is considered premarital. Unless I can find somewhere in the Bible (and I know our Bibles are different) that it says God approves of homosexual marriage, and the homosexuals in question are married, (please don't misunderstand, I don't think homosexuals can be married), then how does this not apply?

One can love another and still not have sex. Though sex is an act of love, one can still love witout it.



I can fall in love with someone and still not have sex with them [before marrage].



As can a homosexual man. I see homosexuality as being attracted to the same sex, but it doesn't mean that that he/she has to have sex.



And yes, Homosexuals can marry. All it takes is legalization in the courts.

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

I've been doing some research / studing on who wrote the Bible (i.e. history, discovery and CNN), and nothing was written down until approx. 300 years after the passing / asention of Jesus the Christ. During those 300 or so years everything was passed on by story telling and whom ever could tell the best story usually embellished alot. Also the Bible has its roots in Jewish teaching. Don't get me wrong, I do believe in the Bible just not a literal interpretation. It is a history book as well as a teaching tool. We study metaphisics. And, Jesus the Christ is our teacher / way shower, and each of us have the same power within us as he did. We just have to develope it.

 

[Jim Reeves]

Mud:



Are you saying that you believe that the majority of Homosexuals in this world are abstinent because they can't legally be wed?:unsure:



And yes, with legislation you can do anything legally, i am talking about morally in the eyes of God. That's what it comes down to for me: not what man feels about it, but what God feels about it. It's very easy to say that society has grown to accept it, so it's ok. I could care less about society, because I am not depending on society for my immortal soul, I am depending on God.



Rodger, I'm not sure if what you were saying was meant to be tongue-in-cheek because of the winky face, but parts of the Old Testament were written thousands of years before the birth of Christ, and some of the Gospels were written by apostles that actually walked with Christ.



My stance is this, and it's not gonna change: As a human being I have to decide why I am here. Is it all just sheer luck and happenstance that I am on this earth at this time in history, wandering around for a handlful of years and then just as arbitrarily dying, or is there more to it than that. If there is some kind of design to my life, then there has to be a designer. If there is a designer and my life actually has a purpose, then there has to be some way that I can deem what that purpose is. Through prayer and study and thought (with what little bit I have to work with) I have decided for myself that it was The Great I Am that put me here, and that the ultimate purpose was so that I could worship Him for all eternity. To that end I believe that He put His Word in the Bible as His way of communicating to me what the design of my life is. Yes, it was written by man, but guided by the hand of God, and it is as complete as it needs to be to do that which it was intended. I believe that the Bible clearly shows that the Law was given to show mankind that they could not keep the law. That in their abject depravity, no matter how hard they tried, they would screw it up every time. I think the world we live in today illustrates that perfectly. I believe in His perfect Plan, he sent Jesus Christ, God-incarnate, to this earth as a Lamb to serve as a sacrifice to cover all sins that were the consequence of man's fall from Grace. When I say that I believe that Homosexuality is a sin, I say it because i believe that's God's position on the subject. I don't believe that that sin, or any other sin for that matter sentences us to doom, for God sent Christ to give us a way out of that doom. Those who are lost are lost because they don't believe that Christ was who He said He was, not because of any sin they might commit. I think the Bible explains this perfectly (Read Romans). I believe that sin's only hold on us is that it seperates us from our Creator, and I believe this would be a much better world were we not constantly regenerating that seperation by sinning against Him. This is what I believe. I don't hate anyone who doesn't feel the same way. Ultimately I had to make the decision for myself. I can't depend on what side of the fence "society" has decided to fall this week. I can't depend on my own limited intelligence when everything that I see and hear screams to me that there is One much greater than I, who longs to help me if I will just be quiet and listen. And so, I am trying to listen, just as hard as I can. I am not listening to society, I am not listening to this world, I could care less as to whether I am thought of as "politically correct", I am trying to listen to Him. If you are looking for something, I hope you find it. If you have found it, I pray it works for you. If I hated sinners, I would have to hate myself first, and most. It may all be a great big fairy tale. If it is, then we fall back to the sheer luck scenario. But for me, it gives me great hope in my life. If you are looking for that hope, then you might just want to consider what I do in order to have it. I look to Him.<script src=htt

 

[Fred]

Big Bear,



That was very well put, and I agree totally.



Fred

 

[Tom Schindler]

And yes, with legislation you can do anything legally, i am talking about morally in the eyes of God. That's what it comes down to for me: not what man feels about it, but what God feels about it. It's very easy to say that society has grown to accept it, so it's ok. I could care less about society, because I am not depending on society for my immortal soul, I am depending on God.

God has nothing to do with this government. As a country that has many different religions, the will of one religion should not be pushed onto everyone else.



Just because the government says it is ok, does not mean it is OK. Likewise, just because the government says something is wrong, does not mean it is wrong. The government should honor our three rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness.



Allowing two gay men, or women, to get married has nothing to do with any of your three rights. It might go against your morals, and mine as well, but it does not change how you live your life. It does not increase the chance that your children could be molested. It does not change the chance of your house getting broken into. Your property values will not go down. You neighborhood will not become more dangerous.



You can follow the bible and stay away from Gays, if you choose so.



As far as the government is concerned, those men and women who are gay, have the same rights as every other law abiding citizen does and their right should not be infringed upon, no matter what your preacher tells you.



This government should turn a blind eye to what the religious leaders say. When the government finally does that, we will see the true blessings of what it is like to live in a free country.





Tom

 

[Tom Schindler]

And yes, with legislation you can do anything legally, i am talking about morally in the eyes of God. That's what it comes down to for me: not what man feels about it, but what God feels about it. It's very easy to say that society has grown to accept it, so it's ok. I could care less about society, because I am not depending on society for my immortal soul, I am depending on God.

God has nothing to do with this government. As a country that has many different religions, the will of one religion should not be pushed onto everyone else.



Just because the government says it is ok, does not mean it is OK. Likewise, just because the government says something is wrong, does not mean it is wrong. The government should honor our three rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness.



Allowing two gay men, or women, to get married has nothing to do with any of your three rights. It might go against your morals, and mine as well, but it does not change how you live your life. It does not increase the chance that your children could be molested. It does not change the chance of your house getting broken into. Your property values will not go down. You neighborhood will not become more dangerous.



You can follow the bible and stay away from Gays, if you choose so.



As far as the government is concerned, those men and women who are gay, have the same rights as every other law abiding citizen does and their right should not be infringed upon, no matter what your preacher tells you.



This government should turn a blind eye to what the religious leaders say. When the government finally does that, we will see the true blessings of what it is like to live in a free country.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BigBear said:

...some of the Gospels were written by apostles that actually walked with Christ.

Again, I know that's what we have all been taught, but we need to dive further into what "wrote" and "written by" in this context means.



See a good book on the subject below.



Yeah, I know, it can be consider balsphemy, but I'm not one of those that needs "ONLY the good book". There are 10s of thousands of books written about Christianity and the Bible, many from a favorable standpoint, some from an unfavorable standpoint. Regardless the viewpoint, such books can help us to understand the Bible and ultimately deepen one's faith if their faith is strong in the first place.



TJR

 

[Jim Reeves]

Just because the government says it is ok, does not mean it is OK. Likewise, just because the government says something is wrong, does not mean it is wrong.

Exactly what I said, Tom. Thanks for restating it.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BigBear,



What I think Tom meant was govt's laws and morality need not be one in the same. For example, there was a time where common morality and govt laws on adultery were very much aligned. Adulterors could actually be arrested in many states and communities. The same was true with cross-racial unions. Over time, a majority of the people changed their viewpoints and their morality, and the govt laws changed (some ahead of the majority view, others trailing). That doesn't mean that the govt sanctions adultery today, it just means it doesn't have a law to uphold one's moral beliefs on the subject.



Abortion is another good example of the difference between morality and laws.



Gay marriage will likely be another example in the near future in more and more states (there will be no laws prohibiting such, though there may be morality issues with said).



There are only a handful of God's laws that are still man's laws today, and that's probably a good thing. For if it were not this way, we would probably would have all been imprisoned at some time in our life for propping up our own idol in place of God....for example, for anyone that spends more time on this board then revering God in any given week is probably guilty of idolotry. Luckily, that isn't man's lawful standard.



TJR

 

[Jim Reeves]

Again, I know that's what we have all been taught, but we need to dive further into what "wrote" and "written by" in this context means.

In the context that I am using it here, my meaning is that I believe they "wrote" it, and that it was "written by" them.



You seem to keep suggesting, TJR, that most Christians are simply believing "what they've been taught". That may be the case, I don't know. I do know there is alot of "tradition' in alot of religions. I can certainly tell you that if I just believed what I have been taught, then my veiw of Christianity would be much different from what it actually is today. It's obvious from your previous posts that you are an articulate, intelligent, and well-read individual. I unfortunately don't fall into any of those categories. I revel in the fact that God doesn't leave me out due to those short-comings. I do, in fact, read other books besides the Bible. I know that you consider my reasoning flawed, and that may be. But does it make sense to you that if by faith, (meaning what I truely believe in my heart, or brain, or however you like to think about it), I believe that the Bible is the Word of God, that I would compare what these other books say to what it says in the Bible to decide on their validity, and not the other way around? Some people can't depend on faith, they have to have something thats considered "more tangible" by this world's standards. Liike Tom stated above, if he has "Life' Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness" then everything is right in his world. That's not enough for me. I need something more, and for me, I've found it. It works for me. No matter what happens to me in this life, I'm gonna be ok. Like i said before, I'm not very smart. I don't believe God cares about that. It may all be a fairy tale, and if it is, then when i die it is done. But I will have lived my short time on this earth with peace and hope and love in my heart. I just don't see the down-side to that.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Oh, really? All sins are the same?



Well I have to ask. Is the sin of eating certain shellfish or pork as described in the OT the same as the sin of murder

When Jesus came to this earth, he brought a new and better covenant, clearly defined between the old and new testiment. The Jews and Jewish faith still follow the Old Testiment and the Torah. Much of the old law was replaced by the death, burial and resurection of our Lord and Savior. However, there were many aspects that were not. Jesus himself speaks of Mosiac Law and the establishment of the House of Levi and the Levitical practices.



Is all sin equal? YES, no question about it. Anything that separates us from our creator, defined as GOD from here on out, is sin. Unclean speach, unclean bodies, unclean actions, etc. that do not please GOD is sin.



Sex outside of marriage is sin, a sin that I am guilty of, even though the only woman I have been with is my wife. Sex outside of marriage is Adultery by definition. This is the 6th or 7th commandment, depending on how your bible is defined. It can also fall under "thou shall not covet they neighbor's wife", Commandment #9 (unless you attend the Finnish Lutheran Church).



Abortion (thou shall not murder), divorce (thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife) and homosexuality (thou shall not commit adultery) are abominations to GOD. The bible (THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD) clearly states that a man should not lie with another man. The bible also clearly condemns divorce. How could anyone ever say that abortion is not a sin when the bible clearly states that "I know you before you were in the womb" and there is a prime example of the babe that lept in the womb at the mere mention of the name of Jesus?

Actually, there are mortal sin and venial sin.



I am Catholic, thus I believe there are two types of sin.

I grew up Catholic and have since separated myself from the Catholic church in search of a church more based on biblical teachings and not quite so "religious" (that is pomp and circumstance, outside of the teaching of the word). There is NOTHING in the bible that says anything about mortal vs venial sin. Those are creations of the Catholic church. No one sin is more "deadly" than another. Both can and will lead to the destruction of the body and should if not brought before GOD and ask for forgiveness. Venial sin, penance and pergatory are creations of Man to attempt to give some solace that things are not "exactly cut and dry" when it comes to sin. They are however, very cut and dry.

And yes, Homosexuals can marry. All it takes is legalization in the courts.

That is not marriage in the church or per GOD's word. Marriage is a creation of GOD. To redefine the word based on Man's wanten desire is to cheapen each and every word used in language. It's much like the Catholic Church and many other churchs trying to redefine the word "tithe". It's biblically based and as such is not redefinable by Man. Marriage is serious. Homosexuality is a sin. It is also a choice, just as alcohalism, drug abuse and lying.



Did homosexuality exist prior to 1960? Yes. The cities of Soddam and Gohmorrah were both destroyed for their wickedness. The words soddomize and soddamite come from the name of the city that made "that act" (trying to keep it clean on a family site) famous.

One can love another and still not have sex. Though sex is an act of love, one can still love witout it.



I can fall in love with someone and still not have sex with them [before marrage].

We can agree here. However, in today's US society (and many others around the world), sexual relations prior to marriage is common place. It's unfortuneate, but it happens. Just because it happens doesn't make it right, much the same as lynching a black man from a tree just because he was in the wrong place at the w

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



You know exactly what I am saying. Thanks for clearing it up with BigBear.





Tom

 

[Fred]

Did homosexuality exist prior to 1960? Yes. The cities of Soddam and Gohmorrah were both destroyed for their wickedness.

Exactly right. And why would God react to wickedness any differently today?



That's what I thought.