Chad Merry
Well-Known Member
Like I said I have a tornadoe throttle body spacer that will get you 30 mpg and over 400hp from Sport Trac. If you are going to buy Nitrogen for a Sport Trac then you might as well buy my TB spacer..:lol:
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Wes Davis
Well-Known Member
I use nitrogen. My tires don't leak as much with nitrogen. Supposedly nitrogen also gives you a better ride as well. I certainly thought my vehicle handled better with an improved ride the first time I used nitrogen. Something about the large molecules cushioning or not compressing as much as air or something like that. I guess some of the same reasons they use nitrogen in shock absorbers
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
I filled the each of the rear tires of my John Deere garden tractor with nine gallons of windshield washer fluid. They don't seem to leak much at all anymore.
Maybe air is the problem. Get the air out of our tires and life will be better?
Maybe air is the problem. Get the air out of our tires and life will be better?
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Richard L, others,
It's not that I don't believe that some air leaks out, I do; and that its less for Nitrogen. I believe that. It's just to me that the 1-3lbs/mo seems inflated (no pun intended) based on my observations. My tires simply don't lose that much, that often and I check them all the time, and the times they do drop remarkably is switches from warm to very cold weather.
Bill Barber, this *IS* the subject matter. Is Nitrogen a benefit? That's the discussion. One of the major, only real benefits for passenger vehicles is easier, more carefree tire maintenance. I'm skeptical.
And I've been running nitrogen in one car for 6 months now, and air in the other for 2 years. The vehicle with regular air in the tires I have topped off twice, and measured them every couple of months and each time I measured except for when the TPMs went off all was within range of norm.
Might nitrogen be worth the peace of mind for some? Yes. Might I have not had to top off my other car a couple of times if it had nitrogen? Maybe! But I can't see where I am losing 1 to 3 lbs with air. That's not my experience.
P.S. I'm out of this discussion because all I am really trying to understand is why my tires don't lose 1 to 3 lbs of air a month, and I'm not getting any speculation on that...and because some here are getting their panties in a twist due to my verbose postings.
TJR
It's not that I don't believe that some air leaks out, I do; and that its less for Nitrogen. I believe that. It's just to me that the 1-3lbs/mo seems inflated (no pun intended) based on my observations. My tires simply don't lose that much, that often and I check them all the time, and the times they do drop remarkably is switches from warm to very cold weather.
Bill Barber, this *IS* the subject matter. Is Nitrogen a benefit? That's the discussion. One of the major, only real benefits for passenger vehicles is easier, more carefree tire maintenance. I'm skeptical.
And I've been running nitrogen in one car for 6 months now, and air in the other for 2 years. The vehicle with regular air in the tires I have topped off twice, and measured them every couple of months and each time I measured except for when the TPMs went off all was within range of norm.
Might nitrogen be worth the peace of mind for some? Yes. Might I have not had to top off my other car a couple of times if it had nitrogen? Maybe! But I can't see where I am losing 1 to 3 lbs with air. That's not my experience.
P.S. I'm out of this discussion because all I am really trying to understand is why my tires don't lose 1 to 3 lbs of air a month, and I'm not getting any speculation on that...and because some here are getting their panties in a twist due to my verbose postings.
TJR
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Doctor CAD
Well-Known Member
If you fill a tire with air (78% nitrogen) and let the 21% other gasses leak out, you will end up with a tire that has 25 psi of 100% nitrogen left in it.
Refill that tire with 7 psi of air at 78% and let the 21% of that 7 leak out, you now should have a tire with 30.4 psi of 100% nitrogen, not bad.
Refill and let 21% of the 1.6 psi leak out and now your tire will have 31.65 psi of 100% nitrogen in it!!! Eventually, you'd have a tire with 99.999...% nitrogen in it, probably more than a nitrogen tire filling company can do.
Now, this would be true if nitrogen didn't leak out of a tire, but, come on...we all know it does.
Refill that tire with 7 psi of air at 78% and let the 21% of that 7 leak out, you now should have a tire with 30.4 psi of 100% nitrogen, not bad.
Refill and let 21% of the 1.6 psi leak out and now your tire will have 31.65 psi of 100% nitrogen in it!!! Eventually, you'd have a tire with 99.999...% nitrogen in it, probably more than a nitrogen tire filling company can do.
Now, this would be true if nitrogen didn't leak out of a tire, but, come on...we all know it does.
TJR,
The 1-3 PSI pressure loss per month is an average. This number may also include tires that have picked up very small pin-hole punctures that may accelerate the air loss. This is just the numbers that are thrown out there without exactly how these studies were done? It also does not indicate if the tires were all automotive, or if there were other types of tires like tractor, airplain, heavy equipment, etc?? I'm sure the volume of air and the normal inflation pressure may contribute to more or less air loss.
I personally have noticed that new tires tend not to leak much air for close to a year. As they get older, they tend to leak more. I suspect that some new tires may not leak more than 1 PSI in six months, but eventually they will lose some pressure. Your claim that the pressure loss was due to temperature changes is not completely correct since that only accounts for about a 4 PSI difference from a cold tire to a warmed up tire.
I have never heard that Nitrogen will improve handling and doubt that it would since there is no real difference. Tires temperatures rise and fall the same if they are filled with air or nitrogen.
While it may be nice that your dealer filled your tires with nitrogen for only $20 and gives you free refills, Just how does that work if you are 200 miles away and one of your tires is low??? I would inflate my tire with air to the proper pressure, and then drive to the dealer and insure that he sucks out all the air and refills them with nitrogen, which I doubt that he will do?
That is my whole point of air vs nitrogen in your tires. It is far more convenient to use air in the tires of a street driven vehicle than to use nitrogen. The small advantage of using Nitrogen is far exceed by the convenience of using plain old compressed air.
...Rich
The 1-3 PSI pressure loss per month is an average. This number may also include tires that have picked up very small pin-hole punctures that may accelerate the air loss. This is just the numbers that are thrown out there without exactly how these studies were done? It also does not indicate if the tires were all automotive, or if there were other types of tires like tractor, airplain, heavy equipment, etc?? I'm sure the volume of air and the normal inflation pressure may contribute to more or less air loss.
I personally have noticed that new tires tend not to leak much air for close to a year. As they get older, they tend to leak more. I suspect that some new tires may not leak more than 1 PSI in six months, but eventually they will lose some pressure. Your claim that the pressure loss was due to temperature changes is not completely correct since that only accounts for about a 4 PSI difference from a cold tire to a warmed up tire.
I have never heard that Nitrogen will improve handling and doubt that it would since there is no real difference. Tires temperatures rise and fall the same if they are filled with air or nitrogen.
While it may be nice that your dealer filled your tires with nitrogen for only $20 and gives you free refills, Just how does that work if you are 200 miles away and one of your tires is low??? I would inflate my tire with air to the proper pressure, and then drive to the dealer and insure that he sucks out all the air and refills them with nitrogen, which I doubt that he will do?
That is my whole point of air vs nitrogen in your tires. It is far more convenient to use air in the tires of a street driven vehicle than to use nitrogen. The small advantage of using Nitrogen is far exceed by the convenience of using plain old compressed air.
...Rich
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Richard.
Thanks!
That makes a lot of sense. My '04 ST was sold in '07, with the original tires still on it and I don't ever remember topping them off. My current '07 Focus had new tires put in at 24k miles, and again, I never topped off the tires with air. I always check tire pressure every couple of months, or sooner if they appear soft.
With today's cheap OEM tires I rarely get two years off the first set from the factory, regardless the brand or auto mfgr.
Maybe I don't keep my tires or vehicles long enough for the tire to start to break down as you describe.
Thanks for your input.
TJR
Thanks!
That makes a lot of sense. My '04 ST was sold in '07, with the original tires still on it and I don't ever remember topping them off. My current '07 Focus had new tires put in at 24k miles, and again, I never topped off the tires with air. I always check tire pressure every couple of months, or sooner if they appear soft.
With today's cheap OEM tires I rarely get two years off the first set from the factory, regardless the brand or auto mfgr.
Maybe I don't keep my tires or vehicles long enough for the tire to start to break down as you describe.
Thanks for your input.
TJR
Les
Well-Known Member
Besides, air is still free in "some" stations...
TJR,
I don't think it has much to do with OEM tires, although perhaps higher quality tires may be built to closer tolerances with better quality materials and denser rubber and may leak less???
My 2008 Mercedes with $185 each, 130MPH speed rated Michelins w5ent for about 5-6 months without any air loss. Now my TPM goes off every 2 months. I check the tires and some are only down about 2-3 PSI while others may be exactly where they were set the last time (33PSI fronts, 38PSI rears due to different tire sizes front and rear).
My TPM seems to be so accurate that I don't even bother checking the pressures monthly, but I do need to look at them since it may take driving nearly a mile before the TPM recognizes a low tire. That's not good if you have a flat..:unsure:
I do find it hard to believe that you drove your 04 Sport Trac for about 4 years and never needed to add air? Perhaps someone added some tire sealant to the tires to avoid flats and that prevented any air loss?
...Rich
I don't think it has much to do with OEM tires, although perhaps higher quality tires may be built to closer tolerances with better quality materials and denser rubber and may leak less???
My 2008 Mercedes with $185 each, 130MPH speed rated Michelins w5ent for about 5-6 months without any air loss. Now my TPM goes off every 2 months. I check the tires and some are only down about 2-3 PSI while others may be exactly where they were set the last time (33PSI fronts, 38PSI rears due to different tire sizes front and rear).
My TPM seems to be so accurate that I don't even bother checking the pressures monthly, but I do need to look at them since it may take driving nearly a mile before the TPM recognizes a low tire. That's not good if you have a flat..:unsure:
I do find it hard to believe that you drove your 04 Sport Trac for about 4 years and never needed to add air? Perhaps someone added some tire sealant to the tires to avoid flats and that prevented any air loss?
...Rich
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Richard L,
I would absolutely lose my mind if TPMs went off very 2 months. I would go crazy. Seriously. As I said, that's not been my experience with my tires and cars with TPMs. Maybe mine are cheap and innacurate. I've had them on two cars now, installed at the factory.
Do others with TPMs get warnings every couple of months, all year long? Chime in please?
If so, I would suspect that TPMs are not a favorable option. I've already heard many people asking them to be removed. Maybe this is why????
TJR
I would absolutely lose my mind if TPMs went off very 2 months. I would go crazy. Seriously. As I said, that's not been my experience with my tires and cars with TPMs. Maybe mine are cheap and innacurate. I've had them on two cars now, installed at the factory.
Do others with TPMs get warnings every couple of months, all year long? Chime in please?
If so, I would suspect that TPMs are not a favorable option. I've already heard many people asking them to be removed. Maybe this is why????
TJR
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
Never had a tire to loose 3psi in a month. The most I have ever loss is 2psi in 3 to 4 months. I cant see paying for nitrogen or chasing it down. I have my own compressor and portable tank.
What many folks dont know is it may not be the tires. Most cars nowdays have alloy wheels. Depending on the qaulity of the metal. The pourisity can be higher on some wheels. You can actually loose air though the metal. Learned that from popular mechanics article.
What many folks dont know is it may not be the tires. Most cars nowdays have alloy wheels. Depending on the qaulity of the metal. The pourisity can be higher on some wheels. You can actually loose air though the metal. Learned that from popular mechanics article.
TJR,
Don't blame the TPM's. They are just doing what they are supposed to do, because you won't !! If you had your 2004 Sport Trac for 3+ years and the TPM's never sensed a low tire, and you claim you never had to top them off, then I would say your TPM's were not working!!
The purpose of the TPM's is to let you know when your tire pressure is low, so you don't have to check it monthly. I prefer that my TPM's will tell me when one or more tires drops 2 PSI so I can add some air rather than it never tell me and end up wearing out an expensive tire.
Fast Eddie
The 1-3 PSI pressure loss in a month is just an average range. Loosing 2 PSI in 3-4 months is not that far out of that range. And remember, as an average, some will loose more and some will loose less. Because that is an Average, that does not mean every tire ever made will loose a minimum of 1 PSI or a maximum of 3 PSI a month.
I do agree that some cast alloy wheels can have porosity, and also leak air. but tires will loose air even when mounted on steel wheels.
Those of you who have experienced tires that leaked more or less air does nothing to disprove that tires average a 1-3 PSI pressure drop per month, simply because it is an Average, and those who lose more or less air are already part of that average !!
...Rich
Don't blame the TPM's. They are just doing what they are supposed to do, because you won't !! If you had your 2004 Sport Trac for 3+ years and the TPM's never sensed a low tire, and you claim you never had to top them off, then I would say your TPM's were not working!!
The purpose of the TPM's is to let you know when your tire pressure is low, so you don't have to check it monthly. I prefer that my TPM's will tell me when one or more tires drops 2 PSI so I can add some air rather than it never tell me and end up wearing out an expensive tire.
Fast Eddie
The 1-3 PSI pressure loss in a month is just an average range. Loosing 2 PSI in 3-4 months is not that far out of that range. And remember, as an average, some will loose more and some will loose less. Because that is an Average, that does not mean every tire ever made will loose a minimum of 1 PSI or a maximum of 3 PSI a month.
I do agree that some cast alloy wheels can have porosity, and also leak air. but tires will loose air even when mounted on steel wheels.
Those of you who have experienced tires that leaked more or less air does nothing to disprove that tires average a 1-3 PSI pressure drop per month, simply because it is an Average, and those who lose more or less air are already part of that average !!
...Rich
Bill Barber
Well-Known Member
In conclusion, JMO, Nitrogen is a waste of money, sorta of like botteled water.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Richard L,
I didn't have TPMs on the '04 ST, but I did check the tire pressure periodically (every couple of months). Topped of all tires once in about 3 years of ownership.
TJR
I didn't have TPMs on the '04 ST, but I did check the tire pressure periodically (every couple of months). Topped of all tires once in about 3 years of ownership.
TJR
TJR,
Well I guess you are one of the luckiest guys in the world to own a vehicle for 3 years and only have to put in a little air in your tires one time.
So much for your ST, what about the vehicles thay you said had the TPM's? Are you saying that you never had to add some air to those tires either?
Now remember, if your tire pressure drops from 38 PSI to 37 PSI over about a month, you cannot say that you decided to keep the tire pressure at 37 PSI becuase you liked the ride better, and therefore conclude that you did not have to add any air
...Rich
Well I guess you are one of the luckiest guys in the world to own a vehicle for 3 years and only have to put in a little air in your tires one time.
So much for your ST, what about the vehicles thay you said had the TPM's? Are you saying that you never had to add some air to those tires either?
Now remember, if your tire pressure drops from 38 PSI to 37 PSI over about a month, you cannot say that you decided to keep the tire pressure at 37 PSI becuase you liked the ride better, and therefore conclude that you did not have to add any air
...Rich
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user 62394
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Actually, I agree with TJR. I've never had a car that I had to often add air to other than when it goes from hot weather to cold weather. I check when I change the oil (or have it changed), rarely have to make an adjustment. Losing 3psi in a month sounds like a problem to me.
Rocks
Rocks
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
RichardL,
I added air to our Pacifica with TPMs twice, both during very cold weather with the monitors went off. We've owned that vehicle for 2 years. We had a Mountaineer for over 3 years. Topped that off about once per year too, when the sensors went off, again during very cold weather.
Our '07 Focus is almost 2 years old. Have had the tires changed once. Never added air.
One thing to note: Except for the Focus, which I change the oil on, a dealer or a quick-lube place has changed the oil on our other vehicles. However, we get oil changes at 5k and 6k miles, depending on the car, so that's about 2 oil changes a year. It's possible and likely all the tires got topped off then. But usually, when that is the case, it is noted on the service memo if pressures were low.
MTU,
Thanks for chiming in. Glad to hear I am not the only one NOT having to add a couple of pounds of air to my tires each month.
TJR
I added air to our Pacifica with TPMs twice, both during very cold weather with the monitors went off. We've owned that vehicle for 2 years. We had a Mountaineer for over 3 years. Topped that off about once per year too, when the sensors went off, again during very cold weather.
Our '07 Focus is almost 2 years old. Have had the tires changed once. Never added air.
One thing to note: Except for the Focus, which I change the oil on, a dealer or a quick-lube place has changed the oil on our other vehicles. However, we get oil changes at 5k and 6k miles, depending on the car, so that's about 2 oil changes a year. It's possible and likely all the tires got topped off then. But usually, when that is the case, it is noted on the service memo if pressures were low.
MTU,
Thanks for chiming in. Glad to hear I am not the only one NOT having to add a couple of pounds of air to my tires each month.
TJR
Again, everyone missed the point that the 1-3 PSI loss per month is an average. Average means that about half the vehicles will loose more air and about half the vehicles will loose less air. Newer tires will probably leak less than older tires. And if you look at the number of vehicles on the road today about 70% will have low tire pressures and about half will have pressures that are more than 3 PSI low.
If you look at the average salary for your job for your reagion of the country and it says that your profession pays an average $48K-$50K per year, but you make $55K, or you only make $45K per year does not mean that you were not part of the average!!! There may be 100 people who only make $40K and 25 who make $60K or more and yet they are still all part of the average You guys are so hung up about the fact that you loose less air than the average, that you cannot believe anyone could possibly loose 1-3 PSI a month yet there are obviously some who loose even more to average out your small loss.
The reason that you are seeing lower tire pressures during cold weather is because of the air contracting in the tire. Obviously you guys are in denial. If you don't check your air pressure until the TPM tells you the tire/s are low, you don't know if the tire was 1 or 2 PSI low before it turned cold and the remaining air contracted and triggered the TPM. How low was the pressure. Some TPM's don't alert until a tire drops 5 or 10 PSI. Some are trigger at a certain PSI range and if you over inflated your tires by 4-5 PSI, you may have lost 8-10 PSI before the TPMs alert you.
Of course your tires are more likely to be low on pressure when the weather is cold. That is only because the air density contracts when the temperature gets colder. If you set your tire pressure to 35 PSI at 70 degrees, and the temperature drops to 30 degrees, you might see a 3-4 PSI drop in your tire pressure. If your TPM alerts you to the lower pressure, you now reinflate your tires to 35 PSI but now it's 30 degrees. When the temperature warms up to 70 degrees again, your tire pressure is probably now around 38-39 PSI. A few days later it goes back down to 30 degrees, but your TPMs do not alert because the pressure is still around 35 PSI.
The following winter it goes down to 30 degrees and your TPMs go off again. You check your tire pressure and you are down to around 30 PSI again. You figure that must me just the cold weather, right? Wrong ! The year before you filled your tires to 35 PSI when it was 30 degrees outside and you have now lost 3-4 PSI at the same temperature, So it cannot be the actual temperature since the temperature is the same 30 degree but the pressure is lower. So where did that air go? Simple, IT LEAKED OUT. And it matters not if it was 1-3 in a month or 1-3 pound in a year. Some tires leak more and some leak less.
...Rich
If you look at the average salary for your job for your reagion of the country and it says that your profession pays an average $48K-$50K per year, but you make $55K, or you only make $45K per year does not mean that you were not part of the average!!! There may be 100 people who only make $40K and 25 who make $60K or more and yet they are still all part of the average You guys are so hung up about the fact that you loose less air than the average, that you cannot believe anyone could possibly loose 1-3 PSI a month yet there are obviously some who loose even more to average out your small loss.
The reason that you are seeing lower tire pressures during cold weather is because of the air contracting in the tire. Obviously you guys are in denial. If you don't check your air pressure until the TPM tells you the tire/s are low, you don't know if the tire was 1 or 2 PSI low before it turned cold and the remaining air contracted and triggered the TPM. How low was the pressure. Some TPM's don't alert until a tire drops 5 or 10 PSI. Some are trigger at a certain PSI range and if you over inflated your tires by 4-5 PSI, you may have lost 8-10 PSI before the TPMs alert you.
Of course your tires are more likely to be low on pressure when the weather is cold. That is only because the air density contracts when the temperature gets colder. If you set your tire pressure to 35 PSI at 70 degrees, and the temperature drops to 30 degrees, you might see a 3-4 PSI drop in your tire pressure. If your TPM alerts you to the lower pressure, you now reinflate your tires to 35 PSI but now it's 30 degrees. When the temperature warms up to 70 degrees again, your tire pressure is probably now around 38-39 PSI. A few days later it goes back down to 30 degrees, but your TPMs do not alert because the pressure is still around 35 PSI.
The following winter it goes down to 30 degrees and your TPMs go off again. You check your tire pressure and you are down to around 30 PSI again. You figure that must me just the cold weather, right? Wrong ! The year before you filled your tires to 35 PSI when it was 30 degrees outside and you have now lost 3-4 PSI at the same temperature, So it cannot be the actual temperature since the temperature is the same 30 degree but the pressure is lower. So where did that air go? Simple, IT LEAKED OUT. And it matters not if it was 1-3 in a month or 1-3 pound in a year. Some tires leak more and some leak less.
...Rich
user 62394
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Richard L,
I think you are missing our point -- I can't speak for TJR, but I have owned 6 cars in my life. Some bought new, some used. Owned all at least 4 years (usually more like 7), so obviously several sets of tires. Only one with a TPMS system is the newest one I have now. On none of them have I ever had to add even close to as much air as you are talking about. For all of them to lose less than "average" amount of air, as you put it, seems to be a statistical impossibility to me, or at least highly improbable.
By the way, your definition of average is incorrect. The definition you are giving (half above, half below) is "median" not "mean" or "average". They will be the same in some cases (in a normal distributions for example, for those of you who have taken some statistics classes), but not in all.
I think you are missing our point -- I can't speak for TJR, but I have owned 6 cars in my life. Some bought new, some used. Owned all at least 4 years (usually more like 7), so obviously several sets of tires. Only one with a TPMS system is the newest one I have now. On none of them have I ever had to add even close to as much air as you are talking about. For all of them to lose less than "average" amount of air, as you put it, seems to be a statistical impossibility to me, or at least highly improbable.
By the way, your definition of average is incorrect. The definition you are giving (half above, half below) is "median" not "mean" or "average". They will be the same in some cases (in a normal distributions for example, for those of you who have taken some statistics classes), but not in all.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
+1 on what MTU said.
All I can say, and all MTU (seems to be) saying, is that we are not seeing tire pressure loss anywhere near these so-called averages. I don't see that as denial. We simply aren't seeing it.
Let's consider this so-called average of 1 to 3 lbs of tire pressure loss per month. That's bunk right there because giving an average as a range is pretty meaningless, IMHO. Richard went on to state above how many people's tires will lose less than the average and, others more. Thanks. I know how averages work. Seems I picked that up somewhere during or before my 6 years of engineering in college. But if you define as average as a range you seem to be implying something; something more than a regular average. You are either implying that you really don't know the average, or that the average really isn't an average, it's more of a general range. When I say "you", don't take it personally, I mean anyone that quotes or provides such averages as ranges.
Bottom Line:
At best I will say maybe, just maybe I am losing 1 to 3 lbs per YEAR. That's been my experience. To me, that doesn't get me close to the so-called average.
I expect when someone quotes averages, and says things like "on average you should expect", or "the average is", that my experiences should NOT differ widely from the average claims. For this so-called average, I don't even come close.
For example, if someone told me the average MPG city for an ST is 18, and I were getting 1.5mpg I would say that either I have an exceptional (exceptionally bad) ST, something is totally wrong, or the average is suspect. That 12:1 difference is what I'm seeing my tire pressure loss and the so-called average. I'm not losing 1 to 3 lbs per mo, on average, it's more like 1 to 3 lbs per year. That difference, IMHO, cannot be attributed to denial or user error (or misunderstanding).
So, to me, this all makes the average very suspect...which was all I ever said in the first place. If the average differs widely from many observed behaviors than what good is the average?
P.S. I pulled the bozo switch on the stat when it was stated at 2 to 3 lbs / month, not that it really matters much.
Respond if you want, but I've said my peace on this subject.
TJR
All I can say, and all MTU (seems to be) saying, is that we are not seeing tire pressure loss anywhere near these so-called averages. I don't see that as denial. We simply aren't seeing it.
Let's consider this so-called average of 1 to 3 lbs of tire pressure loss per month. That's bunk right there because giving an average as a range is pretty meaningless, IMHO. Richard went on to state above how many people's tires will lose less than the average and, others more. Thanks. I know how averages work. Seems I picked that up somewhere during or before my 6 years of engineering in college.
But if you define as average as a range you seem to be implying something; something more than a regular average. You are either implying that you really don't know the average, or that the average really isn't an average, it's more of a general range. When I say "you", don't take it personally, I mean anyone that quotes or provides such averages as ranges.Bottom Line:
At best I will say maybe, just maybe I am losing 1 to 3 lbs per YEAR. That's been my experience. To me, that doesn't get me close to the so-called average.
I expect when someone quotes averages, and says things like "on average you should expect", or "the average is", that my experiences should NOT differ widely from the average claims. For this so-called average, I don't even come close.
For example, if someone told me the average MPG city for an ST is 18, and I were getting 1.5mpg I would say that either I have an exceptional (exceptionally bad) ST, something is totally wrong, or the average is suspect. That 12:1 difference is what I'm seeing my tire pressure loss and the so-called average. I'm not losing 1 to 3 lbs per mo, on average, it's more like 1 to 3 lbs per year. That difference, IMHO, cannot be attributed to denial or user error (or misunderstanding).
So, to me, this all makes the average very suspect...which was all I ever said in the first place. If the average differs widely from many observed behaviors than what good is the average?
P.S. I pulled the bozo switch on the stat when it was stated at 2 to 3 lbs / month, not that it really matters much.
Respond if you want, but I've said my peace on this subject.
TJR
