Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot............................

[Nelson Atwell]

I had cocoa this morning.......with those little coloured mashmallows

- Brian

Some evidence of proof for my theory. I'm assuming while you were sipping the cocoa, you didn't commit any crimes.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Our Founding Fathers have to be spinning in their graves at the size and state of our government and nation today.

They would also be spinning in their graves if they knew Blacks were no longer slaves and women can vote. If they really felt all men are equal, they would have never allowed slavery in the first place. The same goes with women voters. If women were suposed to vote, they would have been given that right in the first place.



I do not agree with the statements I made above, but times change to adapt to changing conditions.



I don't think the "founding fathers" would be happy with jobs being shiped overseas either.



That is very true about Switzerland...actually all of Europe. My grandmother has a hatred towards Turkish people. After the war, Germany opened its doors to other nations because they needed men to work in the factories after the war. Crime went up dramaticly. It isn't so much that Turkish people are criminal minded, but those that moved there had a hard time getting ahead. Different races have different traditions and sometimes those traditions clash resulting in problems.



As mentioned before, the USA is a giant melting pot of people. We cram ourselves in areas like NYC, Miami, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas/Ft. Worth, LA, etc. Too many people in one area causes problems of their own. People get agrivated from traffic and need to let off steam. More people compete for space and the prices go up. Those that lack education resort to crime to get "ahead". Those that get robbed get angry and the circle begins.



How many really large cities are in Canada? Cities the size of Toronto are far and few in between.



Maybe that is why rape is higher in Canada then the USA. There are only so many women in "your" area and guys feel they can take whatever they want, but they have jobs to provide them with food, clothing, and housing. Jobs wont get you sex.



It is just a theory.





Tom

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

if a goverenment racks up debt in the past, it needs to run a budget surplus

to pay down the debt.





The US has a 4 trillion $ debt or more, to pay this down, you would have to

run budget surpluses.

As an economist, I have a BIG problem with this statement.



First off, the "debt" of the US govt is in the form of bonds or loans. Paying them off early results in payine much more for the debt than it's worth (pre-payment penalties). The debts that come due that year are figured into the budget. A suplus is a BAD THING for a government. Not only will politicians get too big for their britches and waste it, but as it has been stated that is my money and yours.



If you want to reduce the debt, you must reduce spending and entitlements. In the recently submitted US Budget for 2007 ($2.7 TRILLION, that's 27 followed by 11 zeros, or approximatly $9,060 per person in the US) , approximately 1/4 was for defence spending, one of the only things that the US Government was origionally authorized to pay for under the Consititution. A good majority of the rest come in entitlement s[ending, Department of Education spending and various other political slush funds.



As of January 2006, the federal deficet was a mere 3% of the US GDP. Do you realize that Wal-Mart alone constitues anywhere from 3-5% of the US GDP alone?

They would also be spinning in their graves if they knew Blacks were no longer slaves and women can vote. If they really felt all men are equal, they would have never allowed slavery in the first place. The same goes with women voters. If women were suposed to vote, they would have been given that right in the first place.

While I don't totally disagree with this statement, you also need to look at the social fabric at the time. More of less since the time of the Pharohs, women were reguard as property, with few cultural exceptions. This trend continued more or less unabated to the the colonies and to the fledgling US. With the Woman's Rights Movement, followed by the Civil Rights Movement, opportunities changed and cultural fabrics changed. I do not care to dare to know wht atht founders thought on all of this, especially since at the time salvery was legal and thought to be a gentleman's right and responcibility to own slaves. It's about upbringing.



50 years ago an inter-racial marriage was taboo as well. That is the way the people of this country were brought up. Today, it's a differnt story. I personally know atleast 4 inter-racial couples who have stronger family lives than most of the non-inter-racial families that I know.



That is not to say that I am incorrect about the founders as well, as like I said, I do not dare try to figure what their personal thoughts were since all I care to follow of their leadership was the patriotic sprit they endowed, the sence of liberty they sought and the greatest experiment that the history of mankind has ever had.



That's visionary.



I also don't think that the founders could ever imagine what our world looks like today. Specialization in the 1700's meant that the South grew Cotton and the North produced fabric and machinery. Today specialization means that Switzerland produces the finest watches, the US produces the greatest software and intellectual property, Mexico assembles more TV's and VCR's than any other country, Japan and Taiwan produce the highest technology devices, China has some of the lowest labor rates, France likes to run away from conflict, etc. Specialization leads to efficiency. Efficiency leads to greater prosperity.



I'm not trying to dog ya, Cayman. I'm just interjecting what I know, my theories.

 

[TrainTrac]

First off, the "debt" of the US govt is in the form of bonds or loans. Paying them off early results in payine much more for the debt than it's worth (pre-payment penalties). The debts that come due that year are figured into the budget. A suplus is a BAD THING for a government. Not only will politicians get too big for their britches and waste it, but as it has been stated that is my money and yours.

Thanks for the expert support on this, R Shek. I was too rusty on my economics to explain it in the detail that you did. gwac doesn't seem to get it, probably because he was brought up (indoctrinated) in a Socialist society to believe that all money belongs to the government, not the people.



And as far as the Founding Fathers and slavery, it's also a documented historical fact that many of them who were slaveowners did express a desire to free their slaves, and some even did free their slaves eventually. Many of them were on record against slavery, but they knew that because it was such an entrenched part of the culture and economy it wouldn't happen overnight. It was something that would take a long, long time to enact.

 

[Tom Schindler]

I'm not trying to dog ya, Cayman. I'm just interjecting what I know, my theories

I know that. Like I said above, we really don't know what is right and what is wrong with our country today and if the founding fathers would have agreeed or disagreed with it.



Honestly, I don't think they would be as happy as we think they would be.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen says:

Like I said above, we really don't know what is right and what is wrong with our country today and if the founding fathers would have agreeed or disagreed with it.



Honestly, I don't think they would be as happy as we think they would be.

I think if the founding fathers were ressurected and lived a few days in our modern times, observing us, they would be in awe of our accomplishments, yet bewildered by our unhappiness and hate. I would expect George Washington to say: "Look at all you have done, at all you have created, at all you have...and still you are unhappy, hateful, petty people! Shame on you!"

 

[Johnny O]

A good majority of the rest come in entitlement spending, Department of Education spending and various other political slush funds.

Remember too that there never was a Federal Dept. of Education until 1977, and I dare say that people were better educated prior to that.

Thing is we've gotten into a viscous cycle where we pay so much to the government that we demand a lot more from it (see New Orleans), i.e. we want our money's worth. If we were paying a lot less of our income in taxes, we wouldn't expect them to take care of every little thing and take care of ourselves a lot more. My .02.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Okay, though I don't find glee in the shooting and I hope the victim gets well soon, this is kinda funny:



<a href="http://iwontheinternet.com/dick/cnn.php?firstname=Tom&lastname=Schindler&age=38&occupation=Union+Sympathizer+and+Gun+Nut&hometown=Akron%2C+OH&game=*Elusive+Q*&pronoun1=he&pronoun2=him&imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zjstech.net%2F%7Elibrary%2F5374%2FTOM%26TAB.jpg&Submit=Submit">Click Here for story</a>



P.S. Have a sense of humor, Caymen and Q, you guys are my favorite!

 

[Dale Carter]

I think if the founding fathers were ressurected and lived a few days in our modern times, observing us, they would be in awe of our accomplishments, yet bewildered by our unhappiness and hate. I would expect George Washington to say: "Look at all you have done, at all you have created, at all you have...and still you are unhappy, hateful, petty people! Shame on you!"

TJR - Well said. I think they would be ASTONISHED at the size of the "limited" government which they designed. They would vomit at the thought of a Constitutional penumbra of rights, the level of taxation and our total lack of respect for enumeration.

 

[Greg A]

train why do you need to insult me each post....



Putting a line items in expenditures as debt payment or just showing

a surplus is the same thing.



Canada does not put line items...It declares a surplus and puts it towards retiring debt because there is not debt coming due, they retire it early.



Its the same thing



By the way my job is one of the most capitalist jobs out there. I vote conservative...

I hate taxes, but i also hate government accumalted debt because it affect our kids

futures. How has the US done in there debt reduction... not very well.



Canadian Federal government net financial debt 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

$ millions

federal debt 561,733 545,300 534,690 526,492 523,648 (its going down)



The US federal debt is surging



http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.htm



You may be getting tax cuts but its at the expense of future generations.

 

[TrainTrac]

How exactly have I insulted you?:huh: If you or anyone else participating in this thread can point out where I insulted you, please do so, because I just re-read through this thread, and I can't find anything I posted that could be construed as an insult towards you.

Putting a line items in expenditures as debt payment or just showing

a surplus is the same thing.

No, it's not. If it's as a line item specifically earmarked for debt payment, then that's the only thing it can be used for. A surplus is just extra bonus money left over after all expenditures, and it can be used for anything. That's too risky. Usually it goes towards more vote-buying entitlement programs. And as I and R Sheck said before:



(I'm quoting him because he's better able to explain it than I)

As an economist, I have a BIG problem with this statement.



First off, the "debt" of the US govt is in the form of bonds or loans. Paying them off early results in payine much more for the debt than it's worth (pre-payment penalties). The debts that come due that year are figured into the budget. A surplus is a BAD THING for a government. Not only will politicians get too big for their britches and waste it, but as it has been stated that is my money and yours.



If you want to reduce the debt, you must reduce spending and entitlements. In the recently submitted US Budget for 2007 ($2.7 TRILLION, that's 27 followed by 11 zeros, or approximatly $9,060 per person in the US) , approximately 1/4 was for defence spending, one of the only things that the US Government was origionally authorized to pay for under the Consititution. A good majority of the rest come in entitlement s[ending, Department of Education spending and various other political slush funds.

And it's a proven fact that tax cuts increase gov't revenue. But gov't has to reduce spending and entitlements as well.

 

[Greg A]

"gwac doesn't seem to get it, probably because he was brought up (indoctrinated) in a Socialist society to believe that all money belongs to the government, not the people"



I took this as a personal insult I was wrong, you were insulting my country instead. lol



I think we agree, we just voted in a conservative Government who unfortunately

is too center for me. I want Gov spending slashed, taxes cut. I want

our debt paid off before it comes due....I want my kids to have a bright future...





Less government is better government.

 

[TrainTrac]

I'm glad you would like to see smaller gov't and less taxes. But look at the way your country is run right now:



1. Socialized health care

2. State-run radio and television

3. Strict gun control laws, allowing only very limited gun ownership

4. Extremely high, progressive taxes.



These are all Socialist principles, and have been part of Canadian society for quite some time. I didn't mean it as an insult, I was merely stating what I thought to be facts. Now, since I don't actually live in Canada, I could very well be wrong about this. So if I am, please let me know.

 

[TrainTrac]

At this point, how about interjecting another point of view about guns:

Gloria: Do you know that 60 percent of all deaths in America are caused by guns?

Archie Bunker: Would it make you feel any better if dey was pushed out of windows?

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Greg A]

Five percentage points lower average corporate tax rate in Canada than in the U.S. by 2005.

Small businesses: Significantly lower corporate tax rates in Canada on income above C$75,000.

Capital gains: Two percentage points lower average top tax rate in Canada than the typical top capital gains tax rate in the U.S.

A C$500,000 lifetime capital gains exemption for small business shares that has no equivalent in the U.S.

Research and development: A 20-per-cent research and development (R&D) tax credit in Canada for all R&D expenditures compared to the U.S. 20-per-cent credit for incremental R&D.

A 35-per-cent refundable tax credit available to smaller Canadian-controlled private corporations; no equivalent in the U.S.



http://www.fin.gc.ca/toce/2002/cantaxadv_e.html



We have one publicly funded radio and television station, 50 private tv stations and hundreds

of private radio stations.





I like my health care paid for and i do not need a gun.

 

[Greg A]

oh by the way when u sell your house no tax and when u die no inheritance tax

 

[Greg A]

and also i pay 5k property tax on a 700k house, i have friends in New Jersey who pay

17k on the equivalent priced property.

 

[Greg A]

It cost 5k to go to a top university in canada, 2k in quebec.



Everybody should have the right to go to university without having to spend

the next 5 to 10 years paying it off...

 

[Greg A]

And according to this we have lower income tax





http://www.fin.gc.ca/toce/2002/cantaxadv_e.html (these are 2002 stats they may be different now)



Guess what i do not live in a igloo and eat whale blubber any other canadian misconcpetions

you like to tell me.

 

[Greg A]

I am conservative but 2 things I believe in is everybody should have the same access

to a doctor and education...