Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a lot of folks sure could use coming a little closer to Jesus. This would be a good thing.
Huckabee
- Thread starter Frank screwyourednecks
- Start date
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TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is he not an ordained Baptist minister? Also, according to his biography:
I'd say that that makes him more than a "self-titled" Christian leader, wouldn't you?
Really? Can you cite specific quotes by Gov. Huckabee stating this, or other specific examples, such as writings by him, etc.?
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I personally would not vote for anyone who has close religious ties. I don't have any problems with Huckabee as a man or person, but as a Christian, I still strongly believe in the complete separation of church and state.
Anyone who uses their religious affiliations to imply that they will rule this country based on on any religious philosophy is not what I am looking for in a Presidential candidate.
I'm sure many will disagree, but I think Newt Gingrich is the best Presidential candidate the Republicans have to date....And I am not all that fond of him either. That stems from his role as Speaker of the House a number of years ago, and he was shoving it down the Democrates throws. Congress cannot continue with the partisan politics and get anything done. The Congress and the Senate need to learn to compromise and work together to get something done. Even as I speak they are about to shut down the governement because they cannot agree on a budget...that is stupid!
...Rich
Anyone who uses their religious affiliations to imply that they will rule this country based on on any religious philosophy is not what I am looking for in a Presidential candidate.
I'm sure many will disagree, but I think Newt Gingrich is the best Presidential candidate the Republicans have to date....And I am not all that fond of him either. That stems from his role as Speaker of the House a number of years ago, and he was shoving it down the Democrates throws. Congress cannot continue with the partisan politics and get anything done. The Congress and the Senate need to learn to compromise and work together to get something done. Even as I speak they are about to shut down the governement because they cannot agree on a budget...that is stupid!
...Rich
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
TrainTrac,
Thanks for responding for me.
It seems that Frank is so filled with hate and anger that he has trouble realizing what he is saying, and further he seems to have lost the ability sense whether or not what he is regurgitating is valid, has any value, or is just partisan rhetoric.
Sad to go through life like that, IMHO.
TJR
Thanks for responding for me.
It seems that Frank is so filled with hate and anger that he has trouble realizing what he is saying, and further he seems to have lost the ability sense whether or not what he is regurgitating is valid, has any value, or is just partisan rhetoric.
Sad to go through life like that, IMHO.
TJR
Frank screwyourednecks
Well-Known Member
Richard L agrees with me TJR-- as I'm sure most of the voting public do. Huck a bees agenda is not for the people first. Its his religion. Sorry>> trying to convert everyone doesnt create jobs, lower taxes or spur the economy. It just scares us dude!
You really think I'm filled with hate??
I wholly stand (once again) by my post. How can you try to argue with me on this. Huck is a preacher-man to his core. I dunno? Maybe the truth (posted by me) hurts so much..that you think its "anger" Have a good day TJR. Im sorry if I hurt your feelings.
:cry:
You really think I'm filled with hate??
I wholly stand (once again) by my post. How can you try to argue with me on this. Huck is a preacher-man to his core. I dunno? Maybe the truth (posted by me) hurts so much..that you think its "anger" Have a good day TJR. Im sorry if I hurt your feelings.
:cry:
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Frank,
You never hurt my feelings. Furthermore, whether others feel the same way as you about what you think Huckabee's motives are is rather moot to me. I say that because the validity of your opinions and the worth of your message are lost on me due to your child-like rantings. Essentially I can't hear you and can't take you seriously because you come off as a caricature.
If you re-read I never once argued with you about what you were saying. I just suggested you try to say it in a manner that more people would actually listen to you, and not reject your message, and you in the process.
Whether you posted the truth, or not, I'll probably never know or even care to research/discuss for the mere fact that I don't typically listen to people that come off as ranting, raving zealots.
TJR
You never hurt my feelings. Furthermore, whether others feel the same way as you about what you think Huckabee's motives are is rather moot to me. I say that because the validity of your opinions and the worth of your message are lost on me due to your child-like rantings. Essentially I can't hear you and can't take you seriously because you come off as a caricature.
If you re-read I never once argued with you about what you were saying. I just suggested you try to say it in a manner that more people would actually listen to you, and not reject your message, and you in the process.
Whether you posted the truth, or not, I'll probably never know or even care to research/discuss for the mere fact that I don't typically listen to people that come off as ranting, raving zealots.
TJR
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Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
So I guess that leaves you voting for John Lennon or other Communists, forget about the founding fathers...
bud,
No, not at all.. I said I strongly believe in separation of church and state. I don't care what a mans religion is, but I do care if it he make his religion the major point of his Presdential campaign. That would indicate that he is going to try to impose his flavor of religion on everyone. John Kennedy was Catholic, and there was concern that he may bring too much Catholic religious doctrine into the Whitehouse. Religion was also an issue in 2008 because Mitt Romney is Morman...and some people believed that Obama was a Muslim.
John Lennon (of the Beatles) is dead but I doubt that he was a communist...more likely and atheist. Perhaps you are confusing him with Vladimir Lenin, who was a communist, but he is also dead. You might not be aware that Communism is not a religion and communists are not all Atheists?
As for the founding fathers, they are also dead...However, I am in perfect agreement with them. I think you may be confusing peoples belief in God or a spiritual entity with organized religions.
The founding fathers recognized God and even mention their belief in the existance of God with the words. "All men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights ..." But they never included any religious doctrine or personal religious beliefs into the founding of this country. In fact they purposely included the "Separation of Church an State".
God and religion are two very different things. Religion is mans way of interpreting Gods word and passing it on to others. Christianity worships God and his son, Jesus, and comprises numerous Religions including Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheren, etc and all have slightly different interpretations and differences in their rituals. The Jewish religion also believes in God, but they do not believe/accept Christ as a prophet or the Messiah. Even Muslims believe in God, but call him Allah.
So, my point is that the belief in God does not constitute Religion. Religion beliefs is accepting one of the various religions interpretations of God's word...ie: Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, etc.
I am not advocating a separation of God and state, only church and state....and there is a big difference.
...Rich
No, not at all.. I said I strongly believe in separation of church and state. I don't care what a mans religion is, but I do care if it he make his religion the major point of his Presdential campaign. That would indicate that he is going to try to impose his flavor of religion on everyone. John Kennedy was Catholic, and there was concern that he may bring too much Catholic religious doctrine into the Whitehouse. Religion was also an issue in 2008 because Mitt Romney is Morman...and some people believed that Obama was a Muslim.
John Lennon (of the Beatles) is dead but I doubt that he was a communist...more likely and atheist. Perhaps you are confusing him with Vladimir Lenin, who was a communist, but he is also dead. You might not be aware that Communism is not a religion and communists are not all Atheists?
As for the founding fathers, they are also dead...However, I am in perfect agreement with them. I think you may be confusing peoples belief in God or a spiritual entity with organized religions.
The founding fathers recognized God and even mention their belief in the existance of God with the words. "All men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights ..." But they never included any religious doctrine or personal religious beliefs into the founding of this country. In fact they purposely included the "Separation of Church an State".
God and religion are two very different things. Religion is mans way of interpreting Gods word and passing it on to others. Christianity worships God and his son, Jesus, and comprises numerous Religions including Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheren, etc and all have slightly different interpretations and differences in their rituals. The Jewish religion also believes in God, but they do not believe/accept Christ as a prophet or the Messiah. Even Muslims believe in God, but call him Allah.
So, my point is that the belief in God does not constitute Religion. Religion beliefs is accepting one of the various religions interpretations of God's word...ie: Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, etc.
I am not advocating a separation of God and state, only church and state....and there is a big difference.
...Rich
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Bud Williams
Well-Known Member
Thanks for clearing that up RichardL, for a minute I thought Commies have infiltrated this site!:bwahaha:
I also believe in not having a "state sactioned" religion, however the founding fathers, as you pointed out were men of great devotion and God fearing people. They realized the power of Freedom of Religion. I think Romney and Huckabee could legislate and lead without having their religious views interfere with their decision making process. They were both Governors and have prety good records, as far as I am concerned. Others like you know who will disagree...Nixon was a Quaker, Jimmy Carter a southern baptist, Obama was raised a Muslim while in indonesia.
Most Americans in my opinion do not like having other peoples religion thrown at them, but that is what Christianity teaches. Go forth a spread the word, I feel that actions, character and the way one carries themselves brings more people together. I hate all the corrupt preachers you see exposed on TV. If they all could be as good as the Graham family, we be better off. Show me Muslims doing the things that Franklin Graham and his dad have done for the good of humanity....
I also believe in not having a "state sactioned" religion, however the founding fathers, as you pointed out were men of great devotion and God fearing people. They realized the power of Freedom of Religion. I think Romney and Huckabee could legislate and lead without having their religious views interfere with their decision making process. They were both Governors and have prety good records, as far as I am concerned. Others like you know who will disagree...Nixon was a Quaker, Jimmy Carter a southern baptist, Obama was raised a Muslim while in indonesia.
Most Americans in my opinion do not like having other peoples religion thrown at them, but that is what Christianity teaches. Go forth a spread the word, I feel that actions, character and the way one carries themselves brings more people together. I hate all the corrupt preachers you see exposed on TV. If they all could be as good as the Graham family, we be better off. Show me Muslims doing the things that Franklin Graham and his dad have done for the good of humanity....
bud,
I agree with you 100%. State sanctioned religion would be against the "Separation of Church and State" our founding fathers so wisely included in the founding of this country.
I think Romney and Huckabee, might have made good Presidents (and still may?), but it's always hard to get a feel for someone until they are in that positition. Romney as a Morman did not push his religious beliefs to the front of his campaign, while I think that Huckabee did to some extent, but may have been drawn in by the media.
One of the big fears that the Democrats have about a Republican who might be a religious zealot getting elected as President, is that he will push to reverse Row Vs Wade...The Abortion Issue. That was one of the most significant questions they would repeatedly ask George W Bush when he was campaigning.
I also have to say that I think the press and other media unfairly push the Religion button too much on Presidential candidates and perhaps it would be better if the public does not know the candidates religious preferences, and we elect a man/woman for his character and not his religious affiliations......I'm sure we all remember Obama's campaign and the Rev. Wright.
That makes me wish there were a law that forbids any religion from preaching politics from the pulpit..... Since they are Tax-Free entities, Religions should be politically neutral.
...Rich
I agree with you 100%. State sanctioned religion would be against the "Separation of Church and State" our founding fathers so wisely included in the founding of this country.
I think Romney and Huckabee, might have made good Presidents (and still may?), but it's always hard to get a feel for someone until they are in that positition. Romney as a Morman did not push his religious beliefs to the front of his campaign, while I think that Huckabee did to some extent, but may have been drawn in by the media.
One of the big fears that the Democrats have about a Republican who might be a religious zealot getting elected as President, is that he will push to reverse Row Vs Wade...The Abortion Issue. That was one of the most significant questions they would repeatedly ask George W Bush when he was campaigning.
I also have to say that I think the press and other media unfairly push the Religion button too much on Presidential candidates and perhaps it would be better if the public does not know the candidates religious preferences, and we elect a man/woman for his character and not his religious affiliations......I'm sure we all remember Obama's campaign and the Rev. Wright.
That makes me wish there were a law that forbids any religion from preaching politics from the pulpit..... Since they are Tax-Free entities, Religions should be politically neutral.
...Rich
Willie Anglin
Active Member
Isn't it ironic that the leading country in the world, that has the most religious freedom was set up by mainly Christians and now so many fear Christians will take their freedoms away, ironic to me.
I am a Christian, but I am not religious. Meaning I do not belong to any religious goup or denomination of Christians.
I don't object to anyone's religion or religious beliefs, but I don't like anyone that pushes their religious agend on anyone else... Be they Christian, Jewish, or Muslims. Religion is not God's invention, it's man's invention, and is used as a seat of power...and that power has been much abused for man's agenda, not God's.
Just my opinion.
...Rich
I don't object to anyone's religion or religious beliefs, but I don't like anyone that pushes their religious agend on anyone else... Be they Christian, Jewish, or Muslims. Religion is not God's invention, it's man's invention, and is used as a seat of power...and that power has been much abused for man's agenda, not God's.
Just my opinion.
...Rich
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Prchrman,
No one is taking Christian's freedoms away. That's just chicken little stuff.
Richard L,
I still haven't seen anything to fear from Huckabee.
And, actually, by your own statement you DO object to some people's religious beliefs. In one breath you say you do not. But then, in the next statement you say that you don't like anyone that pushes their religious "agenda" on anyone else. Well, those two statements, as I see them, are at direct odds with the beliefs of "evangelical Christians".
Christianity is no one thing. Heck, I've had people in my church tell me that Catholics aren't Christians. What they really meant is that "Catholics aren't Christians like us". Some of the most judgemental, narrow-minded people I have met are Christians.
Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm not even saying your attitude is wrong. Heck, I agree with you. When people knock on my door to tell me about their version of God I tend to wish I had a pitbull (sometimes...).
But, make no mistake, to many, evangelizing, converting, leading to saving through LaSJC *is* their religion, and to many others that scares the crap out of them.
TJR
No one is taking Christian's freedoms away. That's just chicken little stuff.
Richard L,
I still haven't seen anything to fear from Huckabee.
And, actually, by your own statement you DO object to some people's religious beliefs. In one breath you say you do not. But then, in the next statement you say that you don't like anyone that pushes their religious "agenda" on anyone else. Well, those two statements, as I see them, are at direct odds with the beliefs of "evangelical Christians".
Christianity is no one thing. Heck, I've had people in my church tell me that Catholics aren't Christians. What they really meant is that "Catholics aren't Christians like us". Some of the most judgemental, narrow-minded people I have met are Christians.
Again, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm not even saying your attitude is wrong. Heck, I agree with you. When people knock on my door to tell me about their version of God I tend to wish I had a pitbull (sometimes...).
But, make no mistake, to many, evangelizing, converting, leading to saving through LaSJC *is* their religion, and to many others that scares the crap out of them.
TJR
TJR,
I do not fear Huckabee, I just do not favor Political candidates that push their religious beliefs to the forfront of their campaign. I think Huckabee did that when he ran in 2008, but of course some of that was prompted by the media. Romney tended to downplay his religion but the media kept wanting to make an issue of it, like he was going to bring 15 wives into the Whitehouse.
I DO NOT object to other people's religious beliefs, but do not feel that anyone is intitled to force their religious beliefs on anyone else. I am speaking of religious zealots who feel they or their religion dictates that they must convince you that their religion is right and you need to join them, etc.
That is not much different than what many of the Cult religions like the Branch Dividians here in Waco, and Heaven's Gate group in San Diego, try to do to gain more members. Jehovah's do the same thing when they go door to door. Fundamental Muslims do it in many middle eastern countries and that's where the terrorist are recruiting their membership based on religious idealogies to advance their political power. They always have a little different interpretation of the Bible, Quaran (sp?), Tora, or what ever holy scriptures they claim to follow.
It's often the self proclaimed religious men who seek power by preying on the religious beliefs of their fellow man and use religious beliefs as a weapon against their own kind. Just look at the political power held by the Catholic church over 500-1000 years ago....The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc...all were based on religious beliefs forced upon others or they were killed....Hardly the God I believe in! Even early American settlers who escaped to the new world for religious freedom, burned people at the stake because they were assumed to be witches, and Satanic worshipers.
...Rich
I do not fear Huckabee, I just do not favor Political candidates that push their religious beliefs to the forfront of their campaign. I think Huckabee did that when he ran in 2008, but of course some of that was prompted by the media. Romney tended to downplay his religion but the media kept wanting to make an issue of it, like he was going to bring 15 wives into the Whitehouse.
I DO NOT object to other people's religious beliefs, but do not feel that anyone is intitled to force their religious beliefs on anyone else. I am speaking of religious zealots who feel they or their religion dictates that they must convince you that their religion is right and you need to join them, etc.
That is not much different than what many of the Cult religions like the Branch Dividians here in Waco, and Heaven's Gate group in San Diego, try to do to gain more members. Jehovah's do the same thing when they go door to door. Fundamental Muslims do it in many middle eastern countries and that's where the terrorist are recruiting their membership based on religious idealogies to advance their political power. They always have a little different interpretation of the Bible, Quaran (sp?), Tora, or what ever holy scriptures they claim to follow.
It's often the self proclaimed religious men who seek power by preying on the religious beliefs of their fellow man and use religious beliefs as a weapon against their own kind. Just look at the political power held by the Catholic church over 500-1000 years ago....The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc...all were based on religious beliefs forced upon others or they were killed....Hardly the God I believe in! Even early American settlers who escaped to the new world for religious freedom, burned people at the stake because they were assumed to be witches, and Satanic worshipers.
...Rich
Willie Anglin
Active Member
TJR, you need to reread my post. It does not say what you have implied in your post.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Prchrman,
Yes, I did misread your post. Sorry. But I am still going to say that there is chicken little crap going on here. There are a few fringe that are "afraid" of what some of the more vocal Christians are saying of late. But I submit that most really don't give a crap. I submit that Huckabee isnt a real threat to Frank in the least. I submit that most just like to bitch about something, and point a finger, and claim the sky is falling. Also, I'm still not sure what you mean by many are fearing that Christians will take their freedoms away. What freedoms, for example?
Richard L,
Again, I really don't know what Huckabee's stand is on evangelism. I don't know if he is or isn't using politics to evangelize. If he is, well, then that really doesn't scare me. If that is what he is doing well then as I see it at least he is true to his beliefs. If such is the case that makes him better than politicians that ramp up the religion, or tone down the religion when it suits their political purposes or their target audience.
My point is that in my opinion YOU DO object to others religious beliefs by the simple fact that you say that you object to those that you feel force their beliefs on others. For me, your statements and what I feel is the definition of "evangelical Christian" are at odds, logically. An evangelical Christian DOES push their religious beliefs on others. They are instructed to by their dogma. So, if you object to that act (pushing their beliefs), then you object to their religious belief. They believe they are instructed to go out and save you, and him, and her, etc. To be fair, not all Christians believe that, or act as if they believe that, but many do.
As for Christianity today, what I find most interesting is that it seems that many Christians today simply want what Jesus seemed to instruct against. They want this world to be their kingdom and they want to follow him and pray to him in public, in a "for everyone to see" fashion without being persecuted (or even ostracized) for it.
Well, this world is not thy kingdom, nor can we the people and the government of man be made to resemble it. That kingdom will one day come (so says the book, so says the believers). Likewise, those that follow him will be persecuted as he was (again, so says the book).
Ah, Christians, they want the body of Christ, and they want to call it cake and they want to eat it too.
TJR
Yes, I did misread your post. Sorry. But I am still going to say that there is chicken little crap going on here. There are a few fringe that are "afraid" of what some of the more vocal Christians are saying of late. But I submit that most really don't give a crap. I submit that Huckabee isnt a real threat to Frank in the least. I submit that most just like to bitch about something, and point a finger, and claim the sky is falling. Also, I'm still not sure what you mean by many are fearing that Christians will take their freedoms away. What freedoms, for example?
Richard L,
Again, I really don't know what Huckabee's stand is on evangelism. I don't know if he is or isn't using politics to evangelize. If he is, well, then that really doesn't scare me. If that is what he is doing well then as I see it at least he is true to his beliefs. If such is the case that makes him better than politicians that ramp up the religion, or tone down the religion when it suits their political purposes or their target audience.
My point is that in my opinion YOU DO object to others religious beliefs by the simple fact that you say that you object to those that you feel force their beliefs on others. For me, your statements and what I feel is the definition of "evangelical Christian" are at odds, logically. An evangelical Christian DOES push their religious beliefs on others. They are instructed to by their dogma. So, if you object to that act (pushing their beliefs), then you object to their religious belief. They believe they are instructed to go out and save you, and him, and her, etc. To be fair, not all Christians believe that, or act as if they believe that, but many do.
As for Christianity today, what I find most interesting is that it seems that many Christians today simply want what Jesus seemed to instruct against. They want this world to be their kingdom and they want to follow him and pray to him in public, in a "for everyone to see" fashion without being persecuted (or even ostracized) for it.
Well, this world is not thy kingdom, nor can we the people and the government of man be made to resemble it. That kingdom will one day come (so says the book, so says the believers). Likewise, those that follow him will be persecuted as he was (again, so says the book).
Ah, Christians, they want the body of Christ, and they want to call it cake and they want to eat it too.
TJR
Frank screwyourednecks
Well-Known Member
Huckabee's top priority IS evangelism. You can NOT dispute it. As are a lot of Republican politicians. I encourage a look at a recent best selling book "The Family" by Jeff Sharlet. Its a good expose' of how ORGANIZED Republican evangelism is the norm. Also, if you arent much of a reader...a shorter selection called Deer Hunting With Jesus is a fast lesson of how the religious right is putting Jesus before the citizens. Striking truth. Dont be afraid! EMBRACE IT!
HAHAHAH
HAHAHAH
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Frank,
I know you would like to protray me as ill-informed and not a reader. Neither is true. On what matters, I am informed. Likewise, I am an avid reader, I just don't feel the need to read, nor embrace the propaganda that the fear-mongers on the far right and left tend to spew.
If Huckabee is an evangelist, good for him. If that makes you uncomfortable, then don't vote for him or otherwise support him. If he compells you to evangelize others into think the way you do about him, well, then, pot, kettle, black is about all I have to say. We (or at least you and he) seem to have your crusades.
Btw, you got a little on my shoes with that last one.
Continue spewing.
TJR
I know you would like to protray me as ill-informed and not a reader. Neither is true. On what matters, I am informed. Likewise, I am an avid reader, I just don't feel the need to read, nor embrace the propaganda that the fear-mongers on the far right and left tend to spew.
If Huckabee is an evangelist, good for him. If that makes you uncomfortable, then don't vote for him or otherwise support him. If he compells you to evangelize others into think the way you do about him, well, then, pot, kettle, black is about all I have to say. We (or at least you and he) seem to have your crusades.
Btw, you got a little on my shoes with that last one.
Continue spewing.
TJR
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