Illegal Immigrants. Your opinion.

[John Turner 3]

When specialization allowed companies to downsize, focus on their core businesses and hire out their accounting, payroll, HR, and other ancillary activities, they got better services at lower costs, and passed those savings on to the consumer.

If you think things have gotten better, you might want to read this newsletter edition, titled "Shadow Statistics":



http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayArchiveArticleWwnk.php?id=205



Here's the latest:



http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayArchiveArticleWwnk.php?id=208



In short, the US Dollar has lost more than 13% of its value over the last two years, and prices have increased 16% in the same time period. That's an annualized rate of inflation of almost 8%. If you've been getting 3%-4% raises, you've been taking an actual pay cut.



I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any "savings". I've been tracking my expenses, income and budgets to the penny for over 7 years and if it weren't for my own self-imposed cutbacks on expenses, I'd be a lot worse off than I am now.



Re: outsourcing/offshoring. It is up to each worker to manage their own career. Nothing can be taken for granted, every worker must act as if they could be fired at any time on any day. This means living within your means. If you can't cut back your expenses because of family obligations, debt, whatever then you have to increase your means. It is a simple equation, and there's no way around it.



I know it sounds harsh...I was laid off not once but twice in 2001 from two separate companies...I learned my lesson the hard way. Six months net income in the bank, untouchable, monthly expenses no more than 70% of monthly net income, no debt except real estate or student loans, and don't count on any sort of corporate pension or Social Security for retirement. You have to look out for yourself in today's world...you simply cannot take things for granted or relax your vigilance and get complacent.



One issue many people ignore when it comes to offshoring/outsourcing is security. For example, your state DMV might have an offshore data processing contract...that means all of your information is shipped to a foreign country. Do they protect your data? Your identity? How do you know? When your accounting firm, or HR department, ships your personal data overseas to save money, how is it protected? Do you know what happens to your medical data when it goes overseas to be processed? Tax info? It is a scary situation, that's for sure.

 

[TomT]

I do urge everyone here to contact their US Representative about this. Just emailed mine the following:



I will vote AGAINST any candidate supporting ANY FORM of amnesty.



I will vote FOR a candidate from any party that supports the following:



#1. No amnesty.



#2. If an illegal alien wants to be "legal", return to the country of origin and re-enter under government managed quotas, fully documented.



#3. Fine employers $10,000 per incident for every illegal alien employed for any amount of time.



#4. Eliminate "anchor babies", retroactive to 1986.



#5. Eliminate social services for illegal aliens.



#6. Establish viable borders.

 

[Tom Schindler]

One issue many people ignore when it comes to offshoring/outsourcing is security. For example, your state DMV might have an offshore data processing contract...that means all of your information is shipped to a foreign country. Do they protect your data? Your identity? How do you know? When your accounting firm, or HR department, ships your personal data overseas to save money, how is it protected? Do you know what happens to your medical data when it goes overseas to be processed? Tax info? It is a scary situation, that's for sure.

Don't forget your "long lost relative" from nigeria that was killed in a horriffic auto accident and there is 20 $ Million ($20,000,000 USD) waiting for you. We just need $2,000 for lawyer fees. No strings. Free money, it is all yours.





Tom

 

[walter clark]

Darn no more good mexican resturaunts....



F it . Let them stay and be illegial. Pay them sub minum wage for hard, nasty work so that american companies can reap some extra profits and keep services to americans cheep. And all the bums on welfare that wouldent work even if those jobs were made avilable can have a scape goat for there situaton. Heck if we realy got smart we could clasify them as substandard class and deny them good education, proper helthcare and due process. But then what would that say about a socity founded on good wholesome judaic christian values ? The reason they will stay is because they have a backbone and are willing to stand for what they belive insted of ranting in quiet corners and on borads such as this. Out in the streets screaming HELL NO we demand rights and privilidges. Our forfathers had backbones too and made a diffrence, much in the same way as these people do. If you realy are concerned get out there and start a movment, stamp you feet and yell, let everyone know that you are pissed and are not going to sit and let this happen, otherwise shut your pie hole and take it like a good boy...

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Thank you

Gracias

Obrigado

Mercy beaucoup

Fer, perhaps French is the hardest -- at least to spell. It is supposed to be "Merci beaucoup"



I've lived in and traveled to several countries, and most people I've met overseas agree that English is one of the most difficult languages, because of the irregular verbs and noun plurals. However, it is much easier than Mandarin (Chinese) or Hangul (Korean). I know a little bit of several foreign languages which I learned in school (French, Russian and German), and also from being immersed in the culture (Spanish, Turkish, Portuguese, and Hangul) and I agree that most languages are pretty easy to pick up if you use them on a daily basis.



Since English is a Germanic language, if you are transitioning from a Germanic language (German/Dutch) it will be easier to learn English than if you were coming from an unrelated language family, such as Ural-Altaic (the language family that Turkish falls into). English has much in common with German, and also has shared words with French (in the Romantic family). In fact, many of our adjectives are the same spelling as French words, except we replace the "-ment" at the end of their words with "-ly".



Regarding illegal immigration, the US is being a bit hypocritical on this issue. Our government has been putting a lot of pressure on the EU so that they will allow Turkey into the European Union. Turkey has been a candidate since the 1960s, and is a member of NATO. Turkey has a very large population in relation to most European countries, and many Turks have moved into the more prosperous countries such as Germany, France and Britain seeking work.



The situation is very similar to ours, since Turkish workers are willing to work for lower wages than the average European. The EU is concerned that if they allow Turkey into the EU, it will open their borders to a massive wave of immigrants. The US doesn't see this as a problem for Europe, but for some reason if the idea is applied to immigrants coming into the US, we are against it.



Many of the people arguing to get rid of illegal immigrants are ignorant of the facts regarding the burden/benefit to the US economy. The average immigrant is much younger than the average US citizen. Our baby boomers are becoming old, and are exiting the job market. There are not enough young Americans to replace these aging workers -- even with 12 million illegal immigrants there aren't enough workers. We are outsourcing work overseas to India and other countries at increasing rates. If we make it easier for immigrants to come into this country to work, we won't need to outsource so many jobs, and those new immigrants will spend their paychecks in the US, build homes and create even more jobs as the economy expands.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Many of the people arguing to get rid of illegal immigrants are ignorant of the facts regarding the burden/benefit to the US economy. The average immigrant is much younger than the average US citizen. Our baby boomers are becoming old, and are exiting the job market. There are not enough young Americans to replace these aging workers -- even with 12 million illegal immigrants there aren't enough workers. We are outsourcing work overseas to India and other countries at increasing rates. If we make it easier for immigrants to come into this country to work, we won't need to outsource so many jobs, and those new immigrants will spend their paychecks in the US, build homes and create even more jobs as the economy expands.

That does not mean that it is OK to come into the country illegally. Come here legally and I have no problem. Pay tax's like the rest of us do, and I am more then willing to support it. Don't reward those that broke the law and are continuing to break the law by giving them support. They are criminals.



if you honestly think opputsourcing jobs is because we don't have enough workers here, you need to rethink that issue. It is about money. Why pay Fred, Mike, and Paul $10.00/hr when you can pay Achmed, Ishmael, and Sha-ir $10.00/day. Outsourcing jobs is why crude oil is over $70.00/BBL and is going to continue to raise in price.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Outsourcing jobs is why crude oil is over $70.00/BBL and is going to continue to raise in price.

Can you explain the logic in this statement? I don't understand how outsourcing jobs increases the price of crude oil. :huh:

 

[Mark Grumpy]

Because all the TCNs (you know that one Nelson) are now working for us and not drilling for oil :lol::lol:



grump

 

[Tom Schindler]

Can you explain the logic in this statement? I don't understand how outsourcing jobs increases the price of crude oil.

In places like India, China, Romania, and other places that jobs were sent to, they are now consuming energy and competeing with us in buying oil.





Tom

 

[John Turner 3]

In places like India, China, Romania, and other places that jobs were sent to, they are now consuming energy and competeing with us in buying oil.

Americans do not have exclusive right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Other countries in the world have just as much right to purchase something on the open market as we do. You sound like you believe America should be the only developed country in the world...if that's true, it is a pretty whacked perspective.



I agree...if you are here illegally, you should go home. The problems that might exist if this happens aren't going to be any worse than the problems we already have, so if I had to choose, I'd choose the set of problems that exist with everyone here legally over the set of problems that exist where breaking the law is ignored (or worse, encouraged for political gain).



The price of oil is $70 because a) there are lots of people with cash who want to buy oil, b) there is no excess refining capability to buffer fluctuations like hurricanes or wars, and c) the amount of crude available to the market is set by a group of people who have all the leverage (OPEC).



If folks want companies to stop looking for the lowest cost labor possible, they have to stop making "everyday low prices" a priority, and make product quality and excellent customer service the priorities instead. Constant demand for low prices forces companies to constantly demand low costs. Don't reward mediocrity or poor environment stewardship by consuming more than you need just for the sake of consuming, or because you're having a bad day or are bored. After that, everyone has to vote, vote regularly, and be informed when voting. Oh, and stop shopping at Wal-Mart, as well as any and all dollar stores.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gotcha, Caymen.



I failed to recognize that the world's resources were ours and ours alone, and that everyone else is supposed to stay un-industrialized, while we alone grow and prosper.

 

[TrainTrac]

Looks like Maricopa County, AZ Sheriff Joe Arpaio has the answer: He's forming up a good old-fashioned posse to round up illegal aliens. This guy is the man. Does the right thing and take no crap from anyone. And continues to be re-elected.

llegal-entrant posse set



Arpaio task force acting under AZ smuggling law



By Amanda Lee Myers

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



PHOENIX — Maricopa County sheriff's deputies and volunteers will patrol the desert and roadways in the southwestern part of the county for illegal immigrants and arrest them under a state smuggling law, the sheriff said Wednesday.



The Maricopa County Sheriff's Department will draw from existing deputies and members of its 3,000-member posse reserve — made up of trained, unpaid volunteers — to form the illegal-immigration posse.



The 100-member illegal-immigration posse will join 57 other specialized department posses that target specific crimes, including animal cruelty and prostitution.



The effort is an attempt to slow the tide of illegal immigrants into the county, Arizona's most populous, said Sheriff Joe Arpaio.



"It's important to send the message out to stay in Mexico and don't come roaming around here hoping you're going to get amnesty," Arpaio said. "They ought to stay cool, stay in Mexico and wait until this illegal-immigration problem is solved. If they don't do that and they come to Maricopa County, they're going straight to jail."



The posse likely will be deployed by the weekend, he said.



The Sheriff's Department began arresting illegal immigrants in March under a state smuggling law that went into effect in August. Under the law — as interpreted by Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas — illegal immigrants can be arrested and prosecuted for conspiracy to smuggle themselves into the country.



The law's authors have said they intended it to be used to prosecute smugglers, not the immigrants being smuggled. It's been used against smugglers in at least one other Arizona county.



"I support the concept, but I also support the rule of law," said Rep. Jonathan Paton, R-Tucson, who co-wrote the smuggling law. "So this kind of left me with mixed feelings at the end of the day because (the law) is something we thought we had pretty tightly worded, and they're using it for something we didn't intend."



Arpaio's deputies have arrested some 120 illegal immigrants under the law, which has yet to be tested in court.



"We're going to arrest any illegal who violates this new law," he said. "I'm not going to turn these people over to federal authorities so they can have a free ride back to Mexico. I'll give them a free ride into the county jail."



The sheriff's actions are drawing criticism from immigrant-rights groups and community activists.



"This situation is just getting ugly and out of control," said Alfredo Gutierrez, a former Democratic state senator and leader of the Hispanic community. "Every act like this contributes to the angst and anger and desperation in our community."



He said arresting illegal immigrants under the smuggling law is a violation of human rights, and he called Thomas' interpretation of the law and Arpaio's use of authority under it "political pranks."



Paton said he's eagerly waiting for a judge to rule whether the law is applicable to illegal immigrants.



"It's going to be a big battle at the court when it finally comes up, and it will come up."



If a judge rules the law applies to illegal immigrants, Paton said he and other lawmakers will have to figure out how much jailing its violators will cost and review the law based on that figure.





All content copyright © 1999-2006 AzStarNet, Arizona Daily Star and its wire services and suppliers and may not be republished without permission. All rights reserved. Any copying, redistribution,

 

[TrainTrac]

Great column on the subject of illegal immigration, or to put it more accurately, the invasion of our country from the south.

Legal vs. illegal: The language battle

By Cal Thomas



May 4, 2006





DENVER - As with most hotly contested debates, the political fight over who has a "right" to be in America will be partly about who controls the language; not Spanish vs. English, but honesty vs. political correctness.



The "boycott" and demonstrations by people of Hispanic origin and others for "immigrant rights" and the blurring of distinctions between those who are obeying the law and those who are not are important elements in the rhetorical and image war.



Supporters of the boycott characterized last Monday as "A Day Without Immigrants". In fact, it was about whether people who break American laws - either by sneaking in over the U.S. border, or by not renewing their expired visas and work permits, which temporarily allowed them to come here - have a right to stay.



In Denver, where police estimated 75,000 marched, Melanie Lugo was quoted as saying, "We are the backbone of what America is, legal or illegal, it doesn't matter." It matters a great deal, because a nation that cannot, or will not, control its borders is a nation that will no longer be able to retain its character and reason for being.



The Denver Post interviewed Casey Kool, 22, a Dutch citizen, who is applying for U.S. citizenship. "So many people are cutting (in) the line," said Kool, who is three years into his efforts to gain citizenship. He hopes to become a commercial airline pilot. Kool said he has spent $10,000 in legal fees so far in his quest. "Obviously, the United States is a land of immigrants," he said, "but everyone should take a number and do it the legal way." That is the attitude that appeals to most Americans, but not to "immigration rights" activists.



Leftist groups see this invasion (defined as "to encroach upon" in contrast to immigration, defined as "to enter and usually become established") as a source of new votes for their causes, which have not fared well with the present population. "Today we march, tomorrow we vote" was a sign seen in Denver and elsewhere. That sign exposed the primary motivation of the leftists.



I travel frequently to the United Kingdom. The stamp the immigration officer puts on my passport says, "Leave to enter for six months. Employment and recourse to public funds prohibited." I can't hold a job and I can't apply for welfare or other benefits paid for by the heavily taxed citizens of the UK. But I am told by the "immigrants rights" crowd in my own country that not only should I welcome illegal aliens here, I should willingly pay for the education of their children in public schools, their emergency medical care and any additional benefits they might require. Does this make sense? Why aren't they working to improve their lot and economy in their native countries instead of piggybacking on what we have already built here?



One of the fictions masquerading as fact is that these illegals do work Americans don't want to do. There is not a shortage of American workers. But there is a shortage of American employers willing to pay competitive wages. The jobs many illegals take are jobs Americans used to do, but too many won't do them now because they pay less than they used to. Illegals have demonstrated they will work for less than American citizens. Many employers, seeking to improve their profit margins, are willing to let them.



This is one of the changes real immigration reform must address. Permanent low wages create a new underclass with no hope of advancement. Between the exporting of jobs to China and India and the importing of low-skilled workers at low wages, we are competing against our long-term interests. America is more than an economy. It is supposed to be "one nation." By continuing to allow illegals to ent

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Wow, TrainTrac, you make it sound like we are at war and we are losing.



We are a MIGHTY country, I refuse to look at it as we are being "victimized" or "losing the battle".



Did you ever ask yourself WHY it is that it is so relatively easy for illegals to cross the border, to gain employment, and to stay here; and why it has been this way for the last, oh 20 or 30 years?



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

Americans do not have exclusive right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Actually the citizens of other countries, such as China, do not have the right of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. That phrase is in the constitution of the United States of America.

Other countries in the world have just as much right to purchase something on the open market as we do.

I don't ever think I said that. I am just pointing out the Free Trade in a world market is going to cost everyone more then they can imagine.

You sound like you believe America should be the only developed country in the world...if that's true, it is a pretty whacked perspective.

(spitting words out of my mouth) I don't think I said that either. Just get ready, as the 3rd world countires grow, prepare for us to either stop growth or actually drop our quality of life. Isn't life essentially a business? Kill or be killed? Don't think for a moment Toyota wouldn't kill Ford, GM, or Chrysler if they had the chance and the other way around. If there was one gallong of fuel lef and it was either me or you getting it, you better get ready because it is mine. I protect and provide for myself and my family. Likewise anyne here would do the same. If it was a choice of me going hungry or you, sorry to hear about your luck and it sucks to be you.



If you think you don't have the attitude, you are only fooling yourself.

I failed to recognize that the world's resources were ours and ours alone, and that everyone else is supposed to stay un-industrialized, while we alone grow and prosper.

See the above comment.





Tom

 

[The Ape]

Become legal or go back where you came from.



Ape Out.

 

[John Turner 3]

Actually the citizens of other countries, such as China, do not have the right of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. That phrase is in the constitution of the United States of America.

You're being literal, I wasn't. My point: everyone has the right to provide for themselves, in any way they deem fit. Everyone has the right to strive to be the best, "on top", and "better" than anyone else. That's human nature. China, India, etc. have just as much right to be the only world superpower as we do, using whatever system they see fit to use, just as we see fit to use our system. We cannot keep others from wanting what we have, and we can't keep them from taking it if they do so legally with cold hard cash and are willing to pay more than we are for it. It is just that simple.

Just get ready, as the 3rd world countires grow, prepare for us to either stop growth or actually drop our quality of life. Isn't life essentially a business? Kill or be killed? Don't think for a moment Toyota wouldn't kill Ford, GM, or Chrysler if they had the chance and the other way around. If there was one gallong of fuel lef and it was either me or you getting it, you better get ready because it is mine. I protect and provide for myself and my family. Likewise anyne here would do the same. If it was a choice of me going hungry or you, sorry to hear about your luck and it sucks to be you.



If you think you don't have the attitude, you are only fooling yourself.

I think you misread (or outright missed) my previous posts. I also think you're oversimplifying things to a large degree. Toyota doesn't go out to "kill" another company. They're implementing a better system more efficiently for less cost. Their competitors aren't doing the same, and the market is responding. This is as it should be, regardless of how you feel about Toyota or any other "foreign" company selling products in America. (Disclaimer: I work for Ford). If a company's focus is to "kill" a competitor, they will eventually go out of business themselves...the goal of a business is to increase value for shareholders, period. The market (in this case the stock market) will reward businesses that increase value accordingly, just as car buyers reward car makers that sell high quality products at a good price (high value).



My point is this: complaining about the current state of affairs in the world gets us nowhere. Threatening other countries with invasion or force (whether economic or military) because we're not getting what we think we deserve gets us nowhere even faster and probably sets us back in a major way. In my opinion, the solution is NOT to protect the status quo with posturing, threats, and aggression, but to take a look around, see how the game has changed, and play it accordingly to the best of our ability while practicing good qualities like compassion and respect. The first thing we should do is STOP telling other countries what to do, and instead focus on fixing our OWN internal problems first.



We have the ingenuity and technology right here in America to solve our problems. That's why people want to come here in the first place even with all our problems...we're it! For example...we've spent something like $250 billion (or more) on invading Iraq and Afghanistan, with no tangible result whatsoever. Not now, probably not ever. Not to mention thousands of American citizens dead, and thousands of citizens in other countries dead. What do you think would have happened if, in 2003 instead of asking for money for war, Bush had said instead: "Here's $100 billion, $10 billion per year for the next 10 years, for the purposes of developing an alternative, environmentally friendly energy technology that eliminates the need for petroleum imports."? We'd have a new energy source, and the price of oil would be a curiosity instead of something to go to war over. We would have saved $

 

[Tom Schindler]

Everyone has the right to strive to be the best, "on top", and "better" than anyone else. That's human nature. China, India, etc. have just as much right to be the only world superpower as we do, using whatever system they see fit to use, just as we see fit to use our system. We cannot keep others from wanting what we have, and we can't keep them from taking it if they do so legally with cold hard cash and are willing to pay more than we are for it. It is just that simple.

I agree with you. Then again, I don't complain about gas prices anymore. Those that complain the most will buy anything imported to save a buck. That buck they are saving is creating higher prices. It is a never ending battle.

I think you misread (or outright missed) my previous posts. I also think you're oversimplifying things to a large degree. Toyota doesn't go out to "kill" another company.

I guess "kill" was the wrong word. What I am essentilly saying is the If you, as a business owner, can put the competition out of business, you corner more of the market. Wal-Mart set thier sights directly towards K-Mart. They placed thier stores in direct position to overtake K-Mart and they succeeded. K-Mart is in a sad situation.



Toyota would love to do it to Ford, and likewise, Ford would love to do it to Toyota.





Tom

 

[Jose Santana]

Nicely said John.... 250 billion on this stupid war for Oil... Money spending everywhere but here.... Our schools are crumbling, jobs leaving, and the rich are laughing all the way to the bank..... Lets start there...



As far as the Sheriff of Arizona arresting immigrants... Just another ass with a posse making a bad situation even worse.... Great now we gotta pay to jail them!



I gotta say this too thousands and maybe even millions of Americans have shown they think this country is due for some changing of the way we handle these Southern Illegals..... Does this count for nothing in a democracy? Are we going to say everyone who was there was illegal...? The people are speaking and I am wondering are all you consevative righties too angry the vote is not in your favor of how things should be done.... Are you too spiteful to see any common ground we can walk on....? This is the problem i see with most conservatives is you have the "my way or the highway' attitude. When you don;t get your way the next thing is guns and violence towards whomever opposes you,,,, Can any good come out of this? Is all hope lost.....?:huh:

 

[Fer Echegaray]

Debate after debate...