Supercharged Trac in Memphis on Thursday afternoon

[Todd Z]

4PM !!! your not back yet!!!!!

 

[tony brizag]

he is still up there tuning on the dyno with doug from bamachips. i was up there with them and got to see the truck, and man that thing screams (supercharger whine) when u get on the throttle. But the sc looked real cool in there and it seems like a nice kit.

 

[Todd Z]

Cool... Cant Waite to see some Air fuel numbers and some HP numbers

Todd Z

 

[tony brizag]

yeah the air fuel #'s were giving them problems, they were playing with it when i left at like 3:30. I think it was running to lean

 

[scott r]

GRRRRRR!

ANYBODY WANT TO BUY A SUPERCHARGED SPORT TRAC THAT NEEDS TO BE TUNED?!?

 

[Scott Heckler]

You got us all excited . . . . and left us hangin . . . . . what happened?

 

[scott r]

Well, nothing at all happened, or nothing good anyway.

I went down there, spent 2 hours driving up and down the street with doug in the passenger seat, reading my MAF counts, a/f ratio, load, spark, etc etc etc, then he thought he finally had it tuned properly, so we moved inside to the dyno...

The first run was aborted at 4000 rpm because my WOT air/fuel ratio went extraordinary lean again. So doug spent 30-40 minutes frantically adjusting the a/f ratios again. Made another run on the dyno, aborted at 4200rpm this time...same reason. Repeat a/f ratio modifications again, then another run, aborted at 4000 again. Doug goes to the auto parts store to get a fuel pressure gauge, then gets back (45 minutes later) and realizes that it won't work on the trac because there's no place to hook it up. Finally, he decides that it's the fuel pump and gives up tuning it, so I'm stuck driving a truck that is on the verge of blowing a head gasket at any time, ANOTHER 300 miles back home.

I get about 2 minutes away from the dyno and the truck is spitting and sputtering and generally threatening to throw its internals onto the side of the road, so I call doug and tell him I'm going back to the "old" tune (the original tune he sent me which makes me run extremely lean) because I am seriously afraid that I will destroy the truck with the NEW tune. At every shift, the truck stuttered enough that I could hear a BANG inside the drivetrain, then I lost all power if I didn't let off the gas and give it gas after the truck actually made the shift. I am sure that if I had driven much farther, I would have been pushing the remaining 298 miles. It basically felt like someone sucked 80% of the horsepower out of the truck, at ALL RPMs. So I pulled over in a verrrrrry bad part of Memphis, shut off the truck, grabbed my .45 from under the seat and put one in the chamber while I was reprogramming the truck. I was getting some pretty strange looks, so I didn't want to stay there any longer than I had to. hehe

So I made it out alive and drove on home with the old, super-lean truck and now I'm in search of a fuel pump for a mustang 5.0 since mine is "obviously" bad...or something....I guess. (I really have no idea)

Oh! I forgot the best part!! I got to pay $150 for dyno time!

So, I am officially NOT recommending the EE kit to anyone until Dave changes the fuel pump that comes with the kit, or Dave talks to Doug to tell him that the fuel pump isn't the problem...or pigs fly...at which time I will eat my hat (I love my hat).

I can tell you that the supercharged trac makes 247 horsepower and 291 ft/lb of torque BEFORE 4000 rpm though! (file THAT in your useless information directory)

Grand total for the trip, $90 for gas and $150 for dyno time. The trip was precisely 300 miles down there, I filled up before I left and had between 1/4 and 1/2 tank when I arrived. I still had a quarter tank after driving like a nutcase up and down the street with Doug AND after the three dyno pulls. I finally put 19 gallons in to get home and I still had well over 1/4 tank this morning.

Any other questions? Anybody want to buy a trac that is in apparent need of a fuel pump and a good tune(r)? It's damn fast, you just can't drive it over 3500 rpm!

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

-pissed off supercharged trac owner



I think I'm gonna go look at mustang GTs today!

 

[Scott Heckler]

Someone has to be first and lead the way . . .

 

[scott r]

I'm not the first though, I'm the 86th. You'd think they would have it right by now.

 

[2]

Isn't this what pretty much happened to Mr.Vain who had one of the first ones on here a year or two ago? :huh:

 

[scott r]

He had valve and spring problems. My engine is performing perfectly, so is my transmission and rear-end. In fact, it's performing FAR better than I had anticipated. The engine is giving me no trouble whatsoever.

My problem is the tune, or tuner...I am still unsure which. However, if I had continued to drive home with the truck sputtering like it was, I am quite sure that I WOULD have had engine/transmission problems. Once I put the lean tune back on there, it ran perfectly again, just like it always had. It's just dangerous to run an engine in a very lean condition (at over a 15 air/fuel ratio). You can SERIOUSLY damage your engine by doing that.

 

[Todd Z]

Sounds like he has the transmission overlaps too tight, I had the exact same problem.. The tranny actually locked in 2 gears at 1 time for a fraction of a second... The first tune I got from APTEN at the time caused pinging and tranny issues... Then they resent me another one, that kinda corrected the pinging but the tranny was never the same.... it still pinged with ah heaver load other than normal truck weight...

It finally got fixed in 1 tune from wayne....

I am sorry to here about your issues, Hopefully people will stand by their products..



PLEASE READ... The sport trac has a fuel schrader valve on the fuel rail at the back of the engine on the passenger side... you simply need the 90 degree adapter to get a Gage on it....



THIS make me very nervous that some one tuning cars/trucks, especially with superchargers on it DOES NOT know where the valve is.... THAT scares me to no end.... ...:unsure::unsure:



I hope things do work out and you can have a nice running trac...

My only other thought is about the different pulley you installed...

Todd Z

 

[scott r]

The pulley keeps the supercharger within the limits of the recommended RPM range. If you figure a 12:1 a/f ratio, I would also be within spec of the fuel pump, which is from a Ford Focus SVT model. The problem is that the model that Dave supplies with the x-charger kit works on pulse modulation, whereas our "normal" trac pumps work at the same voltage all the time. That's what Doug told me anyway. The Focus SVT pump is capable of 300L per hour...that's 79 gallons per hour. At full throttle, with FIFTY pounds of boost, the engine wouldn't exceed the capability of that fuel pump.

SCHRADER VALVE! That's the term I was looking for earlier, but forgot. Yeah, Doug couldn't find that. I'm not sure he looked really hard though.

For the record, I think Doug is a great guy. He's got only the best intentions. I think he has a pretty fair understanding of the way to tune a vehicle on a larger scale. When you add a supercharger though, the tuning process becomes MUCH more difficult. He's had several classes from SCT concerning tuning, including the advanced class. It was incredibly generous of him to take a day of his time to drive up to Memphis to attempt to tune my truck. As a person, he seems like one of the most genuine, kind people I've met. I'm just not sure he's quite ready to tune a supercharged vehicle yet. I felt a lot like a guinea pig yesterday. He is a bit young though, and I think as he has more opportunity to tune more vehicles, he has a truckload of potential. If my trac wasn't supercharged, I'd entrust it to him without a second thought. I think finding someone to tune this thing properly isn't gonna be easy...

 

[Todd Z]

I do agree, But with 86 units out there, who is tuning these things??... They have to have similar issues, or for some reason your the only one??...



May need more dyno time to figure the curve right.. got a be MAF , injector, and timing related.....AND if you do need a different fuel pump Explorer Express should supply it to you at no charge since this kit is supposed to be completely bolt on.... I could understand if it was for modified engines, But almost all ST's are the same... The programing should only need tweaking and not a complete re- work...

And to top it off, YOU should be compensated for the time and money spent

re-working their kit that is supposed to be complete... In my eyes the kit is not complete and doesn't work!!!!



Man I feel for you, I have had several things on other cars give me hell.. All I can say is hang in there and I hope things get resolved...

Todd Z

 

[scott r]

It's more frustrating than anything I guess. The fuel pump works perfectly up until about 4000 rpm, which is the point where it starts leaning out. Doug tried giving it 33% more fuel, but the a/f ratio wasn't changing for some oddball reason. It could be the MAF, but that was brand new as part of the xcharger kit, as was the fuel pump, injectors and timing adjustments via the new tune. Dave paid for HALF of the dyno time yesterday, which still left me with a $150 bill to deal with. So far, total spend on the xcharger system:

$4000 for kit itself

$56 for shipping

$90 in gas to get the truck tuned in Memphis

$150 dyno time

$405 xcal 2 (the xcal 1 has no logging capabilities, so there's no way for me to keep track of a/f ratios when I'm not on the dyno).

$300 for the installation of the xcharger

headaches related to the xcharger and tuning...PRICELESS! :wacko:

 

[Todd Z]

$300.00 bucks to install.... Man you know some cheep mechanics there.... It would cost me that in food If i did it my self....HAHAH :lol::lol:

Is it at all possible they did not replace the fuel pump and simply said they did???



I know in NY that would be the case... Believe me...



If your leaning out I would say the injector pulse width needs to be widened, Need to up the fuel flow, not pressure, and did you try part throttle run over 4000 rpm to see if it is only a WOT problem or a part throttle issue... Because that could tell you about bad sensors that are not turning on check engine lights due to the tune..

Todd Z

 

[scott r]

Well, the mechanic is my cousin. I suppose it's POSSIBLE that he didn't change it, but EXTRAORDINARILY unlikely. He's a pretty honest guy. He also runs one of the most reputable shops around, and he knows that if he screwed it up, he'd hear about it. hehe



As far as what Doug was trying to do, I really don't KNOW. I don't think he wanted to let too many of his secrets out of the bag, so didn't do a lot of explaining. So I don't know if he upped the flow or the pressure. He had me run WOT and non-WOT repeatedly under a lot of conditions, so I'd say we tested both. If I can ever get my parents' stupid laptop to work, I'm going to take the xcal2 out and do a few runs to get a/f ratios and whatever other data it'll give me and send it to a few people to see what they think. I always like to get a second opinion.



Whatever happened to the good ol' days when you could just turn a few wrenches/screwdrivers to tune an engine?!?

 

[Todd Z]

Whatever happened to the good ol' days when you could just turn a few wrenches/screwdrivers to tune an engine?!?

K-jetronic fuel injection, or even simpler... a good old carburetor....

Todd Z

 

[scott r]

I went to check on some fuel pumps this evening. The highest flow fuel pump that I can buy for a 5.0L mustang is 255 liters per hour. The fuel pump that I have in there now is 300 liters per hour.

Based on my calculations, it can NOT be the fuel pump. The injectors from the xcharger are 42 pound if I remember correctly, so I'm fairly certain that's not the problem. The fuel lines are braided stainless steel, so that they cannot "suck" themselves closed (which seemed to be a problem with the earlier xcharger systems) and my fuel filter was changed whenever the pump was replaced a month ago.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd really like to hear 'em. I am completely at a loss now.

I did also stop and look at a SWEEEEET 2006 GT this evening. Black with red leather interior. Beautiful car. It even had the shaker 1000 audio system in it, which sounded pretty good when I was last shopping for mustangs back in 2002-2003. I invision it with some silver stripes over the hood and an Eaton m112 so I can go back to having a buttload of tuning problems! :lol:

I'm never gonna learn.

 

[Todd Z]

I would Get a fuel pressure Gauge on the truck... Check your pressure...The EE kit comes with 30lb injectors...

So you need to Match the MAF curve with the injectors, If you don't you will get a lean condition...

Check that fuel pressure.... And the rest is up to the tuner to tell the trucks computer to increase the fuel.... There should be no issue with the pump... And with the Gauge on the truck you can see if the fuel pump can supply the amount needed.. THE fuel rails could be too small in diameter, BUT with this kit running on rangers ( SAME motor) I bet the issue with yours is in the MAF curve, values, or the pulse width of the injectors...

Doesn't that dyno place you went to do tuning????



Todd Z